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Can we post tagged rips in these forums? by neo_chip at 3:01 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
So can we?
by bxaimc at 3:50 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
huh?
by hcs at 5:42 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
The forums are a free-for-all.
by neo_chip at 6:19 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
I was thinking of starting a shared lossless thread here. I don't think someone has attempted this here unless I'm wrong. What do you guys think? I respect the hardfile format archiving but I think many will appreciate tag rips in a modular format.

edited 6:22 PM EDT November 2, 2011
by bxaimc at 6:33 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
you mean converting lossy stuff into something lossless to preserve the lossiness?
by Captain Ron at 10:12 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
Couldn't have said it better myself. :P

neo_chip; how do you intend to create a lossless rip when there's already a great amount of loss in the ripping process?
by neo_chip at 11:37 PM EDT on November 2, 2011
How is converting, for example, an original .adx (or any hardfile extension) to .wav exactly lossy? Does this not output to an identical wave file, with the exception of lossy sources such as mp3 or ogg vorbis?

I'm still learning so excuse my limited knowledge. From my understanding vgmstream converts the hardfiles into wave (are they even pcm/wav at all?)
by takumoru at 12:16 AM EDT on November 3, 2011
I think what they mean is that the files you find inside games are already lossy. They've already been encoded into formats that aren't lossless.

I'm just guessing though. I've worked with Killer7 sound/music files before and they're out of this world better than any rips I've heard from say the OST.
Game files not being lossless is news to me =P
by Mouser X at 1:50 AM EDT on November 3, 2011
takumoru said:
I think what they mean is that the files you find inside games are already lossy. They've already been encoded into formats that aren't lossless.


That's exactly what they mean. I am in agreement. Why post WAV/APE/FLAC/TAK or whatever, when the ADXs are smaller anyway? You want to post files that support tagging? I say convert the looping files to LOGG (aka, looping OGG) and tag the OGG files appropriately. Don't want OGG because it loses data between conversion from ADX to OGG? Leave them as ADX/BRSTM/DSP/etc., and include all the "tag data" in a *.TXT file (you can create a separate TXT file for each song (same name as the song it goes to), instead of one TXT file as well).

If you're really interested in doing this, instead of distributing files that are significantly larger than their originals, create a slew of scripts/batch files that do the necessary work. For example:

BAT file contents
---------------
for %%i in (*.ADX) do test.exe -l 2 -f 10 -o "%%i.wav" "%%i"
---------------

This will take a directory of ADX files, and convert them to wave, looping twice, with a 10 second fade, and the output files will look like "<ORIGINAL FILENAME>.ADX.WAV"

Then, you have another BAT file (well, it could be part of the above BAT file actually) that encodes the WAV files to FLAC/APE/OGG/MP3/etc. using the appropriate tools (there's command line tools for all the major formats, as far as I've seen). During the encoding of these files, the appropriate tag data is applied (which, again, can be done from the command line. I've created LOGG conversions, including tags, using the command line tools).

I could provide a comprehensive example, but you'll have to give me some time to set one up (it's been awhile since I've actually done that). And, it'll be using oggenc, as it's easier to set up for that.

The pros for this method are, essentially, size. Excluding the streams themselves, this method would easily be less than 20 MB (and should be less than 10 MB, but I'm not sure how big the necessary tools are). Even including the streams (in their original format) it'd be smaller than distributing FLAC/APE/etc (unless the original format is PCM/WAV). Just tell people "Put my toolset, and the files to be converted, into the same directory, and then double-click the *.BAT file, and then just sit back." Theoretically, you could create a system/set of tools that's completely automated, and requires no additional updates. Just provide a new *.TXT file (with the appropriate tag data), and distribute that. That, however, may require someone to write a program that parses the TXT file appropriately.

What we *really* need is a way to tag the streams, without having to convert them at all. This has been discussed on IRC a number of times, but no consensus has ever been reached, and no one has stepped forward to do the necessary work for this to happen. IIRC, the two methods that seem to be the most popular, is an accompanying TXT for each song (possibly even a single TXT for the entire set, depending on how it's implemented), that contains tag/meta data, or to GENH everything, and then allow the GENH to define tags. Do note that the "GENH everything" is frowned on, but that something similar could be implemented, that doesn't require a "wrapper format".

Last - unknownfile created a thread (I'm pretty sure it was uknownfile), quite some time ago, dedicated toward distribution of lossless sets. I'm pretty sure it was for lossless OSTs though.

That took far longer than I expected it too. Sorry for the massive wall of text. Mouser X over and out.
by Hotcakes at 6:17 PM EDT on November 3, 2011
What would be good would be if we could create separate .txt files or whatever and vgmstream could read/edit/make them.

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