VGMStream Question by Elven Spellmaker at 10:38 AM EST on January 18, 2009
I understand that this is a streaming format (dur), but I was wondering, I thought Nintendo still sequenced their music, even on the Wii..?
I have been wondering this for a long while, and any answers or explaining would be great!
Is it the way its ripped? Example Diagram Below:
MIDI Format --> Sound Card (Wii) --> Streamed...
If its like the diagram above, you are ripping directly after the Sound Card has processed it. If thats the case, it is possible to get at the MIDI format files, like VGMTrans does with D.S. Music?
Or are they pre-rendered (as such), and then stored on the Wii discs as streams from the start? (Shown below)
At Nintendo:
MIDI Format --> Sound Card (External) --> Streamed Format
then,
Streamed Format --> Sound Card (Wii) --> Streamed...
Obviously this doesn't apply to orchestrated files. (Example, Gust Garden Galaxy [Super Mario Galaxy])
If VGMStream plays something it is stored on the game disc as a stream and played back via streaming. There is no run-time sequencing involved for those songs and no sequence or MIDI data exists in the games.
Now, it's possible the songs were created in a sequencer with a wall of keyboards (or more likely softsynths/VSTs these days) but that data's long gone as far as the game is concerned.
That all said, there is still genuine sequenced music on the Wii. The songs in the built-in channels are sequenced, for instance (e.g. the Forecast Channel music, which I'd love a playable rip of). But until the GCN DSP is fully worked out that's probably not happening.
Yep, the stuff vgmstream supports is all of the "pre-rendered" variety. You can find the files yourself if you can rip the game disc.
The sequenced situation is weird; it seems like the DSP is fairly well-understood, at least enough to see what it is supposed to do if the alists were actually being sent to it. Maybe there is some additional interrupt mechanism that isn't yet known. But I haven't really been on top of things for a while.
Yep, the stuff vgmstream supports is all of the "pre-rendered" variety.
Why on earth would Nintendo do this? Streams are harder to manipulate and they take more room!
It seems like madness (Sparta), and it also annoys me... I really would love to rip MIDIs (and the corrosponding SoundFont/DLS) of these like VGMTrans does with D.S. games.
Its all just to annoy me... =/
And thanks for the info hcs. I take it you get what I meant by the diagrams above lol.
EDIT: Taking out those Damn edit tags at the bottom. V
Streams are easier to handle. Think of sequences as playing a bunch of little streams at varying speeds. And more space isn't a worry on todays 9 GB optical discs.
We need a modern console with an FM chip. Streams feel so dead compared to good ol' synthesis.
I wouldn't go that far lol. From the SNES onwards its been Wave-tables, and for the better really... Although the Mega Drive seems to have its place being an FM machine with its bizzare DAC channel...
It's much easier to handle streams. The composer gets to use the DAW they're comfortable with, be that Pro Tools, FL Studio, ACID Pro, etc., and they have their choice of software and hardware synthesizers and other instruments to bake in. Therefore streams can include FM sounds - plug in an old DX-7, or load up Native Instruments FM-8 and you're ready to go with that Mystic Cave Zone "rubber" FM bass sound in seconds. Ditto analog synth sounds and other things that are difficult or impossible for consoles to synthesize in real time.