In GENH, I can only get it to come out one speaker, sounding like a tin can with static pops out the other speaker. Hopefully, someone can figure out how to play these in their original format, as the header seems to hold the loop point values.
In a hex editor, the header appears to be 96 bytes long, first stating SShd, and then under it, 4-5 values in hex.
Screwing with the values in in GENH, I can get it to be recognizable (using S01, as it was the easiest to recognize even in its current super speed form) using 96 as the header length, 2 channels, interleave of 200 or any value +- in 16 (like 216 or 184), and rate of 48000. Check my text file in the zip for loop point stuff... I don't know what they are, but like I said, I'm certain those values are in the header.
Anyway, hope someone else with more knowledge in these can get it running perfectly and get some kickass music going.
Megaman X7 ADS
edited 10:13 PM EDT March 21, 2009
edited 12:59 AM EDT March 22, 2009
But thanks for checking it out.
I know these can be played in their original form, though, as .ads, not having to use genh. Just have to figure out why they are playing at super speed and and get them playing right.
edited 2:02 PM EDT March 22, 2009
edited 4:06 PM EDT March 22, 2009
and didn't those ADSes have support in in_cube some while back? because now they don't, and if you do play them they're all fucked up and weird.
Also, I can look for more music easily once these play correctly, or upload more files that others can look through, too.
Thanks for figuring out the correct interleave and stuff to play at, though!
But I gotta wonder, how come the header is 40?
Funny thing is, I had the right interleave and rate set, since I tried every interleave value from 10 on up to around 600 something, just had the wrong header length.
EDIT: Nevermind, after looking in the hex editor, I figured out how that value is 40. Now I see how the file alignment is also fucked up due to that and see NOW that it really is PS2 Adpcm after deleting that chunk. Then it looked just like others I've messed with in Wild Arms 3, with a byte at the beginning, a space, and then 14 bytes of sound data.
I'm gonna look at the data and see if the first thing after that incorrect header is the loop point stuff or something.
edited 12:40 AM EDT March 23, 2009
edited 12:52 AM EDT March 23, 2009
Edit 2:
Well, I screwed around in it for awhile, and can't find the loop start number, but I can find all the rest of it easily, in 4 byte increments, read backwards (whatever you call that, little endian?), except for the first 4 as far as I can tell, and converted from hex to decimal:
53 53 68 64 -SShd, wrong file type
18 00 00 00 - I don't know
02 00 00 00 - 2 channels
80 BB 00 00 - 48000 for frequency
02 00 00 00 - 2 channels again...? Not sure.
20 00 00 00 - 32 interleave
F8 33 00 00 - I don't know again
FF FF FF FF - I don't know again again
53 53 62 64 - I don't know, but I thought this would be
-- -- -- -- a loop point value, because:
80 FB 37 00 - This is the exact file size without the 40 byte
-- -- -- -- header, and the loop point end
I'm out of time, so may one of you can figure out what number set in that header is the loop start point. I tried a bunch of combos and values in the start loop in the byte box, converted to samples.
edited 1:51 AM EDT March 23, 2009
edited 4:30 PM EDT March 23, 2009
This is some of my favorite VG music, so I I guess I'll take some time to figure it out and make these into a set along with the Wild Arms 3 I was already working on, cutting out all redundant blank data on to save space.
I'll try to locate all the other data, too.
I have to ask something, since the header is wrong anyway and just taking up space... would you guys care if I deleted those bad headers and leave only the music data for making the GENH files?
And no, keep the original data so that CRC matches (that's what the header skip option in GENH is for).
Here's how it works, so far as testing on 2 seperate files:
That bit value here in my previous post:
"F8 33 00 00 - I don't know again"
This translates to 13304 decimal. Multiplay by 16 to get 212864 bytes, then add the header byte count, and you get the loop start point to enter into GENH.
Strangely, after looking at them again, converting the value you get after multiplying by 16 back into hex, I noticed that the loop point IS exactly what it states, except it's one bit off:
F8 33 00 00
After multiplying and converting, you get:
33F80
or what it seems like it should say in the header: 80 3F 03 00, or maybe -0 F8 33 00
I'm going to go ahead and make GENH files out of these, label, and upload for you guys. Now that I've actually found the loop point, it'll be a snap to do.
As for manakoATs files, did he delete all the redundant blank data that literally takes up megabytes of space (no header or any other info, just spacer), and get the right loop points, because last time I talked with him, he had it off by a channel so that you'd actually have one channel's loop start cut off, which can cause there to be a very slight pop in a single channel at the loop point.
I've already gotten more than 3/4 of the way done on mine last I got to work on it, and have my own program to find exact sample count at the loops, so I'm still gonna finish my own set. If I get ahold of the the completed set, I'll compare and see how that goes.
edited 6:22 PM EDT March 23, 2009
Changed a transposed hex number...
edited 6:35 PM EDT March 23, 2009
In the actual single chunk of a file all of the music comes from for WA3, there are gaps between the songs that are megabytes in size and account for sometimes up to 30 seconds of silence when played.
What's more, I found a bunch of songs that have pieces of the song scattered around in different places in the file and aren't connected, but they are SUPOSSED to be a single song. I'm using the soundtrack to figure out where the pieces go.
A third thing I had to go through was that, with some of those songs that are in pieces, there are duplicates of some of the pieces that may or may not be the same. They may actually be different pieces that are to make 2 slightly different versions of the same song, like one that continuously loops at a piece, and another that plays straight through, or 2 that have a slightly different piece.
There were tons of these pieces of songs that are not individual songs on their own, but programs split them because it appears to be, and even when I manually went through and split the file down, I couldn't tell, either, until I listened to them.
One final thing I was doing that I had to go recheck was that some songs have a trailing ending that appears as if the song data had ended, but in fact, I had accidentally cut off some extra data, and had to go back and figure out where the song actually turned to being complete silence (nothing but 00).
For MMX7:
I'm doing some experimenting with the loop start before I start making them. After messing around, I'm wondering if the loop start in these headers takes into account the header size at all, because weather I have it on or not doesn't seem to make a difference except that it just barely seems to sound as if the song loops a tiny bit ahead with the header size added. It just feels like the beat is a tiny bit off at that point or something.
Hell, with the header being for the wrong file type, the loop start seeming to be moved a single bit throwing it off (maybe it's already converted and multiplied by 16 in hardware), I wouldn't be surprised if that was figured that way.
Edit:
I'm still experimenting with whether the header is counted or not, but have a question: Since I've found the loop start value and how to get it, is it now possible to have vmgstream read and play this, loop and all, without making these into genh files, ignoring the file type and that other value you mentioned vgms reading? It'd save a lot of trouble, too.
Whatever would be simplest to do.
edited 8:03 PM EDT March 23, 2009
edited 5:56 AM EDT March 24, 2009
WA3 stuff, what's wrong is wrong, plain and simple. I spent way more than enough time manually going through the music code, breaking it down, making the looped genh files, and carefully checking them to tell how it's read. Last time I talked with manakoAT, he wasn't planning on working on the music anytime soon, said he wasn't even close to being done, and said it was fine that I was doing it instead.
He also had one thing wrong when I was talking to him about the loop starting point, which was, instead of taking into account both channels for the interleave (2048 byte increments to get the data for BOTH channels for interleave of 1024), he had figured at the wrong spot (only in 1024 byte increments), needing it to be moved ahead by another 1024 bytes to get the sound data for the other channel at the loop point. I figured this out myself AFTER I had last talked with him about the calculations and stuff to find the loop value.
MMX7 stuff, depending on whatever you're referring to, I have no idea how the creators put these together, so I don't have a clue how the loop start point is read by the game. Did they count the header or not? It isn't counted in the file length value. Did they get that start value before slapping the incorrect header on, or after? Noone knows but them.
VGMstream/MMX7 stuff, I don't get what's wrong here, I asked if this game can have some exception added into vgmstream telling it to ignore what's wrong in the header, read the good data, and play. I know there are other games that already HAVE this in vgmstream, because Gradius V was one I told hcs about, which was playing at super speed, exactly like this does, and he had to change something so those would play properly.
nonsense, you asked me tons of questions and quit the channel, and btw it was all the ripped, you can download it on TPB or wherever and look at the files, they're using all the 1024 byte shit...
You can trace/hack/whatever down what you want, i don't know why you make it, there's a simple table in the main executable where all offsets/loopstarts/loopends are stored in, i told it to you thousand + 1 times...
and now, please quit this nonsense here, rip your set and be a hero, i don't care about it!!!
edited 6:28 PM EDT March 24, 2009
1. I asked you some questions about figuring out the hex/byte value of the loop points back in July/August of LAST YEAR. I got what I needed to know to make them, for the most part, and left for the night when I had to go, but then contacted you once more wondering about something else and got no response, so I left. I figured it out on my own.
2. I don't know what the hell you're talking about with that table because, back when I pulled the music off the disk and asked you about it, since I was told you started working on it, you had no clue where those start/end/loop values were at on the disk, and you never said a damn thing about any table. You said they may be all together in some part, but didn't know where.
I told you how I was pulling the file apart and finding the loop points manually using a hex editor and an audio program I can loop with that shows the sample number it was at, and you never mentioned a word about anything different.
3. What the hell is your problem, you told me you were far from being done, was busy with something else, and had no plans to work on it anytime soon, and didn't care if I was doing them. You obviously care enough to take the time to come here to make a damn post about it like you somehow got a huge ass bruise to your ego from my post, insulting me for it.
I ended up too busy with my job and other things to finish them.
4. Since you don't seem to understand the concept that, when you have 2 channels with an interleave of 1024, it means you must take 2 1024 byte chunks for both left and right audio (2048 bytes for the full block), or you will CUT OFF one channel's audio data at the loop point and either cause a pop in that channel, or a reversal of the channel data, I decided to put together a nice little example with audio and explanations just to prove I know what the hell I'm talking about and that you might have it wrong.
Example.zip
Diagram.png
Set vgmstream to loop forever and play left and right genh files, read the text file for info on how I created them, check the code in the originals, and look at the diagram that explains why you will cut off the data if you don't loop properly. I figured this out myself and did this same exact test with left and right to figure out how it was read last year.
I was going to use this to take a few of the files which were supposed to be connected, but had a tiny gap of silence between the parts, and cut that silence for my own personal use.
When you learn all there is to know about something, knowing about it longer than someone else doesn't automatically make you more knowledgeable about it when the other person knows exactly the same info as you do.
edited 10:20 PM EDT March 24, 2009
If you want to show me something than upload a complete file instead of throwing pictures and splitted chunks into my way!
By the way, loopstart and loopend doesn't need to be set to a 1024 value, this is nonsense.
If the value isn't dividable by (interleave value * 2) at the loopend, you have a so-called "shortblock", which has absolutely nothing to do with wrong ripping, it's a feature which isn't implemented into the GENH meta and it won't be until it is really needed.
Just listened to my WA3 set for some hours, and i can't get in my head what you exactly want, i hear always my rip is a bad rip, but where are the facts? the png and the 2 splitted chunks showing me nothing...
could it be that you compare my files with the genh value?? if yes, keep in mind, genh holds all values as "samples", not as "bytes"!
and it's not against my ego what's going on here, i'm just a bit pissed that these threat hast 20 entries but no results, i have more important things to do than to poke around hours of hours in one of the 3000 sets.... if you're not satisfied, rip it, no one disallows that! :o)
MMX7: Somehow i can't download the MMX7 files, so if someone has uploaded them elsewhere, please share the link!!
edited 7:26 AM EDT March 25, 2009
So the stuff you wrote about looppoints in WA3 is simple irrelevant (and the current rip, like I've been trying to say to you, plays fine).
For now, you need to use GENH if you want to play them, GENH doesn't change a single byte in your files, you can extract them whenever you want with the correct CRC!
Header Skip: 40
Interleave: 32
Frequency: 48000
Channels: 2
If you have these values in the textboxes simply hit "Use File End", this calculates the LoopEnd.
For the LoopStart use the value at offset 0x18.
For example (B02.ADS) has the value 0x6A78, calculate this in decimal "27256"...
(27256 * 16) / 32 * 28 to get the samplecount for the LoopStart, that's all for now, works fine here! :o)
For MMX7, I already know how to play them thanks to bxaimc figuring out the header length. Plus, I already found an easier way to get the loop start which only involves multiplying by 16 and adding the header length, because the files state exactly what it is. Hell, actually, I found a way that's even easier than that, without having to multiply by 16. I can just convert the offset value I'm looking at which has always been the same after multiplying by 16, then add the header and I got the byte. It's worked just fine on all the files so far. Then I just enter the byte value and convert to samples and click the "use file end" button to get the end value.
In other words, I can create this set in an hour, all I'm doing right now is trying to find all the music that should be there. I found audio data for both English and Japanese voices in scenes, but I think the other audio is in the movie files, which are .pss, or elsewhere. Maybe some short jingles are in a single file. I didn't get time to look yesterday and was way too tired to bother with it.
Likewise, maybe Unknownfile knows where to find the rest. Either way, I'll be getting a preliminary rip up with what I got for now and get the rest as I go.
One last thing that I wish to learn more about is what the relation is between samples, sample size, bytes per sample, file size, all that junk, because still, when I look at sound data, I imagine it being split into channels and graphed into wave form as a continuous stream of sound data, and what data is read by the program is what matters. So again, I still don't see how having the program skip a chunk of the left channel's audio data that goes with the next chunk's right channel audio doesn't matter. Is there something I can read about this, because google isn't turning up anything useful for my limited time.
If it's interleaved on disc, meaning, say, 1024 bytes of left channel, 1024 bytes of right channel, repeat, VGMStream deinterleaves it to have 1 sample, repeat. And a sample can be mono/stereo/multiple channels and just about any data width (usually 16-bit).
When GENH makes a genh file, does it account for the header size you enter when it writes the loop start point to the file, as in, it automatically adds the header length to the loop start point? Only reason I'm wondering about this is because it changes the file end sample count if I change the header size and click the "use file end" button again, and takes the amount of the header out of the count for that number.
After making a ton of the different songs with and without the header added, I can't tell any difference, but I assume it doesn't and that I still need to add the header into the loop start point.
Second, what way do you tag these, is it still the same as the originals posted in the old stream sets in /bonus?
And since loop values are stored as sample number, not file position, the data you input (the location manakoAT mentioned for loop start)will be correct, with no manual fixing required.
And as to why you don't hear any difference with or without the header, think about it. Frequency of 48000 Hz means 48000 samples per second. Header is 40 bytes, each stereo sample in PS2 ADPMC takes, let's assume one byte per sample to ease things a bit. So that's 40 additional samples without proper header skip. That's 1/1200 of a second of additional playback, something you really won't hear.
Still, not skipping header isn't a good idea. Depending on the ADPCM format used, you can have all sorts of weird things happening (recently added Ridge Racer DS format had additional 0x10 bytes of header decoded at first, which resulted in weird volume fluctuations in some of the files. Adding proper header skip fixed them completely).
No tagging solution yet.
edited 3:51 AM EDT March 26, 2009
4096 bytes + HeaderSkip = Start of the real sample data (should be the first frame header).
And yes, the HeaderSkip was implemented to count only the samples for the sampledata so i need to substract it at first from the filesize and calculate the samplecount then.
edited 7:40 AM EDT March 26, 2009
Ok, what mean is this:
The blue box is the header, the red box is the loop start value (times 16, or easier, just add a 0 to the end).
Ok, so the loop start for this song is 33F80, or 212864 bytes (which I convert to samples in genh).
Since I need to enter in the header skip value of 40 bytes at the top in genh, when I type in the byte value for the loop start, do I type that value exactly as stated by the header (212864 bytes), or do I have to add the length of the header to the byte count before converting to samples (212864 + 40= 212904 bytes)?
The byte count shown in the header is exactly the point it loops to when you delete the header from the file. I assumed that I still have to add 40 bytes to the loop start when I type it into the loop start bytes field in genh.
That's what I mean by it, does genh automatically add the header skip to the loop start point you enter when it makes the file, or do I have to add the header length to the loop start byte count. Like I said, genh changes the end value automatically, so does it do the same for the start value?
I still have the original genh 1.0 44kb program, not that newer genh 4, since I don't know where to get it at.
edited 7:53 PM EDT March 26, 2009
enough is enough
STOP MAKING THIS GO NOWHERE!!!!!
VGM RIPPING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS........
EDIT - will it make you happpy if we just add support for this to vgmstream???
please stop with the nonsense
edited 8:28 PM EDT March 26, 2009
To answer yours, how about the fucking part where the guy that made the damn program went on with "i need to substract it at first from the filesize and calculate the samplecount then.", which sounded like he was still going on about what I asked, and screwed me up as to what to do, after reading everything else. I'm tired. I misunderstood. Oh fuckin well.
Oh, and then there's something from last year, I could swear I remember someone saying to add the header to it when telling me how to use genh and enter loop points, and that's why I was assuming so in the first damn place... but that was last fucking year.
Jesus fucking christ. Stop making a huge ass deal out of questions that are very simple to answer, that I'm only asking to make sure I do the damn thing right, and for something as important as *gasp* ripping this vg music for you. I spent a lot of time only on one other headerless set 9 months ago so give me some fuckin' slack.
To bxaimc, thanks for the link to genh4, and I'm pretty much done, aside from changing the loop start since I assumed wrong. It isn't like it's a difficult task, I just want to make sure I get the right god damn numbers entered. The only reason it is not done yet is because I have a whole shitload of things to do that are way more important than this. I'm only doing it to contribute something back for getting some myself. I'm not doing it to "be a hero", and don't give a crap if anyone knows I ripped it. I just want to listen to them myself, and post them/contribute while I'm at it.
Also, I forgot to add something to my last post. The tagging thing I meant was THIS:
Grandia 2 (2002)(Ubisoft)[PS2][GMS]
01 - Memory Of The Gods
Do you still 'tag' them the same way?
Do I have to add a text file about missing songs, or pops in some files? Does it matter? I have no idea. I haven't put up a set before.
Even indirect assistance is appreciated. :)
If I was just doing this for myself, I wouldn't care about pandering to how anyone else wants it done because I do things my own way, and being a perfectionist, kinda, I'd make it sound perfect. I hate flaws in music.
Anyway, I'm done with making all these into genh files, and since there's no answer, I'm just going to go ahead and tag them that way and note the songs that have pops at the end and have loop points that cause a high pitch beep sound forever if it isn't made without a loop.
Oh, one thing more about the tag thing, don't you add who the song artist was to the title?
Next, is there a way to get sound out of pss files? I know what songs I'm missing, but those songs are in the voice scene files, and not readily available as separate things without having to look deeper.
First of all, who has more experience?
let's see:
manakoAT + Knurek + Me vs. you
I'm sorry but this has gone nowhere for almost a week.
edited 1:16 AM EDT March 27, 2009
DChronos: Do I need to do change loop values?
me: No, it's done automatically.
DCHronos: Do I need to do change loop values?
me: No, it's really done automatically.
DChronos: Do I need to do change loop values?
This is how this thread looks like. You ignore our answers, keep asking the same fucking question over an over and then are surprised people are pissed at you? Before loops it was the interleave, before that prolly something else (manako doesn't blow off people without a good reason from my experience with him).
I'm donna do an UF here and say that if you know better than any of us, then do stuff yourself.
I think MMX7 has been thoroughly beaten to death. If you want to bring up any other topics this thread has meandered onto please create another thread for the purpose, and let's try to get along as if the seedier sides didn't happen. I think we all started out trying to clear up confusion but when it turns to insults it's almost certain to end poorly.
Further posts to this thread will be deleted, please email me if you have any problem with that.