HCS Forum - What's going on in other xsf formats

by Mouser X at 10:06 PM EDT on September 16, 2007: So, since there appears to be an emerging SSF scene (even though the player is incomplete), who thinks that Wikipedia's SSF page should be updated? At the very least, the python script could be linked. Though, if it's updated, it should be made completely and unmistakably clear that Highly Theoretical is incomplete, and needs to be updated for full and proper support. Perhaps if this is done, someone else will jump on it, and make a plugin for SSF files (if Neill doesn't do it).

I just like to see that the emulated formats receive recognition... Also, neat stuff for SSF. Mouser X over and out.
by Knurek at 2:24 AM EDT on September 17, 2007: Okay, here's a large KSS pack. Those are usually done from MSX games, though there's a bunch Sega Master System and Game Gear as well, and a few rips from Arcade roms.

I'm posting it here mainly in the hope that someone (kingshriek?) as per usual will post his collection with a few dozen more files. :)

This has only game files, my homebrew KSS folder is a mess I wouldn't want to share with the world. Enjoy.

http://rapidshare.com/files/56265876/kss_games.rar.html
by kingshriek at 3:17 AM EDT on September 17, 2007: @Mouser X:
I think the SSF developments are still at a too early stage for a Wikipedia update. Also, the Python script is still preliminary (limited driver initialization and compatability issues), so I'd rather not have it linked on something as visible as Wikipedia. I'm not sure what the best avenue is for stimulating SSF player development, but there are surely more appropriate ways than Wikipedia (the DSF and SSF pages are really questionable at best).

@Knurek:
I only have a small collection of KSS files (mainly the Konami SCC ones), so I'm not going to be able to help out here. I'll be downloading your pack to update my collection, though. Thanks for putting it together - I really don't keep track of the MSX scene at all.

Also, I just found out that Yabause can conveniently dump 68000 RAM and have made the necessary updates in the ssfdump script to support this (SSF is supported same as before w/ pmdump). I also replaced the embarrasingly bad code I had for searching for 68000 RAM in the pmdump output.

ssfdump.py (ver. 0.04)
http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/ssfdump_v004.zip
by Lunar at 6:20 AM EDT on September 17, 2007: Sweet, Shining Force Gaiden series soundtracks! And here I was hoping someone would rip VGZ files. Weird... awesome though, thanks. I don't understand what MSX music consists of.. seems weird that there are master system/game gear/FM soundtracks among it all.
by Knurek at 6:57 AM EDT on September 17, 2007: KSS is a all around format, it's just that most of the rips are from MSX.
Similar to VGM, there are SMS, GG, Megadrive and some other computers (Colecovision IIRC) as well supported.
by unknownfile at 8:40 AM EDT on September 17, 2007: From what I recall, the KSS format supports Z80-based systems running with several sound chips:
- YM2149 (MSX PSG)
- YM2413 (OPLL)
- Various OPL* chips

I'm not sure of it though.
by marioman at 10:53 AM EDT on September 17, 2007: Concerning the SSF plugin, is does anyone know how to contact Neill? If we notify him of the progress, he may update the plugin. (Or at least release the source.) Just an idea.
by snakemeat at 2:43 PM EDT on September 17, 2007: Thx for the KSS Knurek, Here's my current pack, I haven't added your recent posts to it though.

edited 2:44 PM EDT September 17, 2007
by marioman at 7:45 AM EDT on September 20, 2007: Someone set us up the SSF arvhive:

http://www.vrc7.de/ssf/

We've got to get that plugin fixed...soon.
by Knurek at 9:40 AM EDT on September 20, 2007: Next version of Audio Overload should have SSF support and RB's been saying the bugs in in_ssf are caused most probably by incorrect 68k emulation core.
by marioman at 11:11 AM EDT on September 20, 2007: That would be nice. I hope that the AO code is ported to a Winamp plugin after it is finished.

--EDIT--

Kaminari is keeping VORC (and us I guess) informed of all of the newest SSF news. In his most recent news post, it appears that yet another SSF rip has been made. Get it at the SSF archive. Some type of MAME add-on for kingshriek's script is available too.

edited 9:51 PM EDT September 20, 2007
by Knurek at 8:46 AM EDT on September 21, 2007: Umm, Kaminari <> kami68k AFAIK.
by marioman at 9:03 AM EDT on September 21, 2007: Oops. My mistake. Kaminari and kami68k commented in the same news post and I confused them for some reason. So it is not Kaminari after all.
My nsf stuff. by anewuser at 10:36 AM EDT on September 26, 2007: Hello.

ok, here's my nsf pack (it's just a couple of files) Thank you guys for sharing your stuff, I was able to check tunes that I never knew existed. I tried to delete as much duplicates as possible but it's still a mess I guess.

Download http://www.savefile.com/files/1079305

SOURCES: akumu's/snakemeat/knurek's various releases, irc channels, ugetab's ($4017 fixes and non $4017 fixes), zophar's nsfs, stuff released at http://2a03.free.fr, stuff released at www.2a03.org and its board, stuff released on http://battleofthebits.org (compos and competitions of one hour), nsf musicians' page (such as rushjet1, norrin_radd, dachtunner, Manbow-J, naruto, matrixz, strobe, kplecraft, searches on myspace.com, soulseek, nsf sets on bit torrent sites, mck2ch (lots of untagged rushjet1 and tsuryu's songs there)...and more.

I took care (I hope) not to release wips, or stuff that were given to me that were never meant to be released.

Main differences are in headers (I pray for that and not actual song data) For instance, released famicompo entries before results(untagged) and famicompo entries after results(tagged). Early versions of tunes released on MCK2CH (like wips) and then on famicompo (tagged and untagged) so that makes 3 songs...and maybe throughout the years musicians updated their songs (song data...or something like copyright stuff on the header?) so today we have up to 4 versions of a song. (my set is full of [a] alternatives and outdated stuff)

note: I'm unsure if yozfitz is titron. Also Ikuma's 'fami2step' was first released on battleofthebits rather than famicompo or 'exchipcompo'

I'm sure I'm still missing files (couldn't find them on my hdd even though I thought I had them)

Anyway, laters!
another edit: rrr.zip (on both sakura factory and rophon's directories) I dunno the author, it should be easy to find by checking their pages (both accessible from google) I also included some hes files of 'sakura factory' on hir folder.

I'll keep checking my stuff and compare to your dat file (it seems like I figured clrmamepro...)

edited 10:43 AM EDT September 26, 2007

edited 10:48 AM EDT September 26, 2007

edited 11:13 AM EDT September 26, 2007
by snakemeat at 10:48 AM EDT on September 26, 2007: Thanks much anewuser! I'll be adding these to my collection as soon as possible. A bit behind on the nsfs again.
by unknownfile at 11:38 AM EDT on September 26, 2007: mirror

Also, I'd like to ask that NSF stuff be put in the NSF/GBS thread, or something.
by nensondubois at 3:19 PM EDT on September 26, 2007: Some VRC7 songs nice!
by Knurek at 2:00 AM EDT on September 29, 2007: I've finished my GSF ripping project.

Most of them are ripped by Saptapper (there are a few custom driver rips done by other people), all are size optimized, have SFX/Voices stripped, and are timed using CaitSith2 automatic time detector (should be correct in roughly 95% of the cases). None have tags IIRC, but who cares about that. ;)

The big pack with all the files (200 MB, 521 sets) is available here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/kxluyo

If anyone wants to have single files, or Sendspace is giving them problems, I've uploaded them to ftp://ftp.modland.com as well, though it could take a few days for them to get added to the public account.

The games that are missing either use an updated version of Sappy driver (SRW OG2 for instance) or a custom driver (Shinen's GAX, A2M, Orbital). Maybe this pack will push people to rip them as well (crosses fingers).

Anyway, enjoy.

edited 2:02 AM EDT September 29, 2007
by marioman at 8:07 AM EDT on September 29, 2007: Call me uninformed, but I has no clue that you had a GSF ripping project. They look good. Thanks for uploading them.
by Lunar at 8:12 AM EDT on September 29, 2007: Holy wow. Downloading right now.

I wonder how much of it isn't already on gsfcentral? I'm guessing most of it? Definitely needs to be put up on gsfcentral if that's the case. Insane...
by Knurek at 9:20 AM EDT on September 29, 2007: Some are, but only in the unfinished section (without timings).
by snakemeat at 12:37 PM EDT on September 29, 2007: Cheers and many thanks as always.

Edit: Holy crap, 521 new sets. You're working hard man. Great job.

edited 12:46 PM EDT September 29, 2007
by unknownfile at 7:46 PM EDT on September 29, 2007: Lots and lots of duplicates, though, some of which are already finished. Still, great work.

Also may I add that the Mother 3 set in there is the shitty broken one on GSF Central. I have the finished set on my computer, and Sir Sabin was supposed to be tagging it but never finished. What do you guys say we do?

edited 7:48 PM EDT September 29, 2007
by snakemeat at 12:29 AM EDT on September 30, 2007: Untagged is better than broken.
by unknownfile at 1:58 AM EDT on September 30, 2007: I'm too lazy to clean up the set though.
by Knurek at 2:00 AM EDT on September 30, 2007: Yea, there are dupes there, especially in the Twin Series sets... Didn't have the strength to prune them. :|
by marioman at 1:30 PM EDT on September 30, 2007: NEZplug++ V0.9.4.8 + 2 + 9 released. Go get it.
by Tanookirby at 3:22 PM EDT on September 30, 2007: Link, Please?
by anewuser at 3:54 PM EDT on September 30, 2007: nezplug++
by kingshriek at 4:53 AM EDT on October 3, 2007: I've uploaded some more SSF sets via Rapidshare as well as tone and sequence data extraction scripts if anyone is interested. Details are in my post at the Audio Overload forum, so I'll just link to there.

http://www.bannister.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=33568&page=1&fpart=7#Post34226

edited 4:55 AM EDT October 3, 2007
by marioman at 7:06 AM EDT on October 3, 2007: Great job kingshriek. Keep it up!
by marioman at 9:27 AM EDT on October 5, 2007: Kingshriek has now opened an official SSF page:

http://snesmusic.org/hoot/kingshriek/ssf/

edited 9:28 AM EDT October 5, 2007
by kingshriek at 12:56 AM EDT on October 6, 2007: Apparently not under the best of circumstances though. Seems like I stepped into someone else's territory with my Machi rip if I've correctly understood the latest posts on the 2ch ripping thread (sorry about that, I really didn't mean to do so). While I can't exactly unrelease the set, my recommendation is for them to continue their work - I will gladly obsolete the set if they can improve on it.

I guess I'll take a break for now on the ripping side of things and just wait and see how things pan out for a while. I'll still offer help/support on SSF ripping if anyone needs it of course. I just don't want to do any more damage to the motivation of any more aspiring SSF rippers.

edited 12:58 AM EDT October 6, 2007
by Knurek at 2:45 AM EDT on October 6, 2007: Not sure if you should worry about that. Not like you did rip of someone else's work or something. And not like there's a database of rips any random Japanese ripper plans to do, right?

Also, Offgao posted fixes for 3 of your GBS rips (DQM 1, DQM 2 and Pokemon Yellow).

//EDIT

Also I think they kinda mistaken the Machi PSF set someone from there ripped a while ago with your SSF set?

edited 3:53 AM EDT October 6, 2007
by kingshriek at 12:43 AM EDT on October 7, 2007: I took a look at the example DSF rips, and was able to come up with a extremely preliminary MANATEE.DRV+MLT--->DSF converter script. I know very little information at this point on how the driver works, but it is set up in a very similar way to the Saturn's SDDRVS.TSK driver. The script does quite a few things taken from Neill's rips that I don't quite understand yet. One of these is patching the driver in few locations, and because of this, the script probably only works for MANATEE.DRV Ver 2.50.04 at the moment. Also, the script only looks for sound data with the signatures 'SMSB', 'SMPB', 'SMDB', 'SFPB', and 'SFPW' currently. Not sure how to handle the other ones (don't know what they are either).

Anyway, here's the script (Python, as usual):
http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/dsfmake.zip

Here's some test tracks from Segagaga that I used the script to generate:
http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/sggg_test.zip (drum samples are a bit messed up and the DC level gets a bit jumpy at times, creating at lot of clipping, though)

EDIT: Fixed the drum samples at least at the beginning by playing around with sound command 0x87. The seem to die out as the music progresses, though. Bizarre.

EDIT2: Modified the script to create a dsflib and minidsf files for all tracks in the user-specified sequence bank in the .MLT file.

edited 5:02 AM EDT October 7, 2007
by marioman at 9:54 AM EDT on October 7, 2007: Nice. Good luck on figuring out the rest of the drivers.

--EDIT--

For some reason I cannot get the Segagaga rip to work. The minidsfs say that the 2KEN.bin file should be called 2KEN.dsflib. Even after renaming the file it still won't play.

edited 10:03 AM EDT October 7, 2007
by kingshriek at 5:23 PM EDT on October 7, 2007: Yeah, I included the wrong file. If you run "bin2psf dsflib 18 2KEN.bin" on it, then things should work. Sorry about that.
by marioman at 6:26 PM EDT on October 7, 2007: That did it. Thanks.
by kingshriek at 8:05 PM EDT on October 7, 2007: Here's a preliminary Skies of Arcadia rip for what it's worth (I have no idea about it's completeness, I just took a chunk of .MLT files associated to music and converted them).

http://rapidshare.com/files/61022591/soa_preliminary_rip.7z.html

The .dsflibs are stored uncompressed (.bin) and need to be converted first. I included a batch file to do this.

It could be a hell of a lot more optimized of course (the dsflibs contain nearly identical data), but I didn't feel like going through the hassle of working with the cumbersome dsflib/minidsf nonsense, especially when you have <song-specific data>, followed by <static sample data>, followed by more <song-specific data>. I wish mini*sfs were just diffs against the *sflib rather than a contiguous block of data starting at a single offset.

EDIT: Just found a lot more tracks. Link updated (new set should contain 75 dsflibs).

EDIT2: Reduced the set size to 14.7 MB using two levels of recursive dsflibs. Ugly, but it works.
Link updated again (this time with 76 dsflibs).

edited 9:57 PM EDT October 7, 2007
by hcs at 2:01 AM EDT on October 8, 2007: Very sweet, imperfect as it may be it is nice to have these rips! I'm sure Mouser will be happy.

I wish mini*sfs were just diffs against the *sflib rather than a contiguous block of data starting at a single offset.

miniUSFs are. So are miniGSFs if I recall correctly. Not that this helps you in the least...

edited 2:02 AM EDT October 8, 2007

For anyone interested in skipping straight to the awesomest, SOA_309_02_00.minidsf is Horteka/Hortekua (Kingdom of Ixa'taka on the Eternal Arcadia OST).

edited 2:27 AM EDT October 8, 2007
by Lunar at 6:44 AM EDT on October 29, 2007: Shining the Holy Ark ripped! Great, thanks kingshriek. Shame about the playback bugs... Shining Wisdom has problems in SSF too. I'm guessing most games do. But damn... most of the Shining games have ripped format soundtracks now - or at least the ones I care about. awesome

Has there been any more ripping going on at 2ch (of any sort)? I haven't heard of anything for a while.

EDIT: also, question - what's the rationale behind storing the individual .ssfs as .bin files?

edited 6:51 AM EDT October 29, 2007
by Knurek at 10:45 AM EDT on October 29, 2007: Lunar: Much smaller archives (Machi for instance has 6.3 MB with bins, 30 with ssf).

And the 2ch guys ripped Story of Thor 2 lately (but looking at the rip readme, there are even more problems with it then usually with SSF rips)
by marioman at 2:15 PM EDT on October 29, 2007: Awesomeness. I still think that rips of Nights into Dreams and Christmas Nights would be useful. There is only one mp3 rip in existence that has all of the different themes for each level, and the quality isn't great.

edited 2:25 PM EDT October 29, 2007
by kingshriek at 1:18 AM EDT on October 30, 2007: Going off of the notes included with the Story of Thor 2 rip (I'm assuming it's referring to playback with in_ssf):

Known problem
[1] Pitch Bend (Portamento) Emulation is Disable.
[2] Balance of the sound mixing is problem.
[3] Original sound driver is not playing.
[4] Used Soul hackers sound driver.

[1] is related to a bug in in_ssf's Timer interrupt handling. Because of this, the driver isn't even reaching the routine that applies pitch bends, vibrato, etc. I've sent Neill a patch to fix the problem but haven't heard back from him yet.

[2] is probably also related to the above. DSP effects are not being applied in in_ssf because the DSP program isn't being loaded (DSP program loading routine isn't being reached either because of the Timer issue).

[3] is a problem that's been bothering me for a while. What's probably happening is that the sound is playing with the original driver, but at an extremely low (possibly inaudible) volume. I don't know why this is happening for some driver versions (2.04 among them), but it probably has to do with how the driver is being initialized in the rip. It's almost certainly not an emulation issue because MAME has no problem with Soukyugurentai (driver version 2.04), but in Audio Overload, which uses the same emulation core, the volume comes out extremely low.

[4] makes me a bit uneasy. I don't really like the idea of substituting one driver version with another without knowing precisely what the difference is between the two versions. It could be minor bugfixes or on the other hand be a major change in how certain data is being interpreted. This may (or at least partially) be the cause of problem [2] actually (though [1] I know is caused by the problem I mentioned above).

edited 1:23 AM EDT October 30, 2007
by Knurek at 7:40 AM EDT on October 30, 2007: kingshriek: I guess it should work as well as those generic PSF drivers (there was a gazilion versions of PSYQ, right?)...
by Lunar at 4:57 PM EDT on November 1, 2007: Shining Force 3 ripped now. Oh how you tease me.. :( good job though.
by kingshriek at 9:06 AM EDT on November 2, 2007: If you want to hear how in_ssf would sound with some of the bugs fixed, I've put together a very simple (featureless) command-line player that combines a modified Highly Theoretical emulation core with bits and pieces of the Audio Overload SDK.

http://h1.ripway.com/kingshriek/htcore_test.zip (win32 binary only at the moment - not sure if I can redistribute all of the source).

I've sent Neill Corlett these fixes (he sent me the source code to the emulation core when I first contacted him), but it doesn't seem like he's that interested in updating the Winamp plug-in (haven't heard back from him for some time).
by Knurek at 11:26 AM EDT on November 2, 2007: Great work, Radiant Silvergun sounds much, much better (rsg07.ssf can be listened to without much pain, joy!).

Any chance of adding that missing FM thingy, or is that beyond the scope of the project?
by Lunar at 12:28 PM EDT on November 2, 2007: Awesome! I've given myself some time to get familiar with the Sakura Taisen rip, so I can clearly hear the differences when using this. Extra instruments, pitch changes working correctly, DSP... it all seems to be working a lot better.

It would be a darn shame if Neill now didn't want to fix in_ssf. In the event that he doesn't, do you think he'd be willing to let other people (you?) work on it instead?
by marioman at 2:49 PM EDT on November 2, 2007: Nice. I too would like to see these fixes added to in_ssf. Could you possibly got permission from Neill to update in_ssf on your own?
mega man x7 psf2 by admiralpete at 12:11 PM EST on November 6, 2007: I was just wondering if someone still had the psf2 set from MegaMan X7 that UNKNOWNFILE ripped awhile back. If someone still has them, could you please upload them somewhere? Thanks!
by unknownfile at 2:25 PM EST on November 6, 2007: http://unknown.hcs64.com/psf2/Completed%20Stuff/Mega.Man.X7.PSF2-UNKNOWNFILE.zip

you're welcome
by kingshriek at 1:00 AM EST on November 8, 2007: Knurek: Adding FM is no small task and would require restructuring of the sound emulation core. Right now, it's generating many samples for each slot independently. FM introduces dependencies between slots, so the code would have to be changed so that it works on a sample-by-sample basis across all the slots. I don't really think I understand the SCSP's FM well enough to implement it anyway.

Lunar,marioman: I've already tried contacting Neill twice about the fix but did not hear back from him either time. Perhaps if enough people bother him about it, we can get him to make an update.
by Lunar at 7:45 AM EST on November 8, 2007: I don't understand why he wouldn't agree to update it... it'd probably be simple enough since you've done the work for him. All he has to do is implement it... or just say he's not interested and let someone else.

Does he hang out in any IRC channels where you could contact him directly? Since there's a slim chance he just hasn't been around enough to see your emails, and finding him on IRC would dispel any notion of such.... It'd suck having to make a whole new plugin because he won't co-operate.

I should e-mail him, soon as I figure out the best way of composing the message.

edited 7:50 AM EST November 8, 2007
by Knurek at 11:26 AM EST on November 8, 2007: I'd wager his programming work at... Ubisoft IIRC can keep him busy at times.
by Lunar at 5:42 AM EST on November 14, 2007: NiGHTS rip?! <3

That's really strange timing on your part kingshriek, because only a few days ago someone introduced me to NiGHTS into Dreams' soundtrack. I just now told the guy about the rip and I'm giving it a listen myself - awesome. I'm yet to explore the dynamic sections jiggery-pokery, but it sounds fun.

edited 5:59 AM EST November 14, 2007
by marioman at 7:36 AM EST on November 14, 2007: THANK YOU! You even worked out the dynamic music system. Absolutely amazing.

The Nights soundtrack is just something special. Sega pulled out all of the stops and placed three of their best composers ever on the music composition team. As you can see, the results are INCREDIBLE.

For those looking for more music from these composers, I would recommend: Ristar (Tomoko Sasaki), Sonic Adventure (Chao themes by Fumie Kumatani), and Astro Boy for PS2 (Hataya and Kumatani). Ristar is especially good - almost on the same level of greatness as Nights.

Thank you so much for the rip.

--EDIT--

@kingshriek: The current version of HT messes up some of the notes. However, your build of the HT core plays it perfectly. Have you heard from Neill concerning updating HT? If not could you possibly provide an unofficial release until he does get back with you? (Or maybe just a new plugin all together?)

Just wondering. I would like to enjoy the awesomeness without having to bother with the command line.

edited 3:45 PM EST November 14, 2007
by Knurek at 3:59 PM EST on November 14, 2007: Offgao, the guy that does all that Nezplug fixes has released a KBMedia SSF plugin based on the AO SDK 1.1.
You could try using that (or pester Neill to open the plugin licence).
by marioman at 4:10 PM EST on November 14, 2007: Interesting... Will it work in Winamp?

edited 4:37 PM EST November 14, 2007
by Knurek at 5:07 PM EST on November 14, 2007: If you can find a KBMedia plugin system wrapper for it... sure.
Or just install KBMedia (or Audio Overload). Should rid you of the command line bother.
by kingshriek at 4:40 AM EST on November 15, 2007: I went ahead and made a KBMedia plugin for the modified Highly Theoretical core based on the AOSDK-based one posted on 2ch.

I don't know how to get the length/fade stuff working (don't even see any interface for doing such a thing in kmp_pi.h), but I was able to set up an ini that has the same emulation options as the Winamp plugin (enabling/disabling dry/wet output, etc.). Hopefully it's not too unstable.

Link:
http://snesmusic.org/hoot/kingshriek/other/kbht.zip

EDIT: Needs a bit more bugfixing, but I'll try to finish it soon.

EDIT2: Alright, better.

edited 5:18 AM EST November 15, 2007
by Knurek at 6:55 AM EST on November 15, 2007: Any chance of Winamp/XMPlay (XMPlay plugin SDK is available at request) plugin as well?

KBMedia is mostly useless for non Japanese people.

edited 6:56 AM EST November 15, 2007
by marioman at 7:46 AM EST on November 15, 2007: I second a Winamp version. Thanks in advance.
by Lunar at 8:34 AM EST on November 15, 2007: 3rded :P
by unknownfile at 8:35 AM EST on November 15, 2007: Winamp plugin? Yeah, certainly. But not xmFAIL. Winamp's SDK is pretty easy to use. Contact myself or dro for help.
by Knurek at 8:51 AM EST on November 15, 2007: Ladies and gentlemen, unknownfile showing us once again his mad discussion skillz and mighty argument powerz.
by snakemeat at 9:40 AM EST on November 15, 2007: Thanks Kingshriek, I use KbMediaPlayer all the time for listening to MDX at work. This is great! Emailing to work site now to test when I get there.

edit: Ohh, sounds great! The improvements are very noticeable compared to the previous kbm plugin. Thanks again for resurrecting and supporting this format.

edited 10:54 AM EST November 15, 2007
by unknownfile at 10:49 AM EST on November 15, 2007: @ Knurek:

NO U

Seriously, the only thing XMplay is good for is playing modules. Let Winamp, foobar etc do all the media file playback.

edited 10:50 AM EST November 15, 2007
by Knurek at 11:14 AM EST on November 15, 2007: Yea, let winamp play all the movie files, it's the only thing it does tollerably.

Not sure what's with all the hate, but it support all popular and not popular formats (whether natively or by winamp plugins) and most features (replaygain, tag editing, media library, etc).

Yes I know, the missing stuff, like album cover or mass tags, are really making listening to music untolerable. No, really.

It's not like it mixes the streams in 4 bits or something...

Add stuff like good SID plugin, AHX/Hively Tracker support and exotic Amiga formats which Winamp sorely misses.

But then, to each his own.
by snakemeat at 11:41 AM EST on November 15, 2007: It's not like it mixes the streams in 4 bits or something...

Just out of curiosity, what does this mean? And how does it effect playback quality? Would this apply to winamp plugins used in XMplay?

I personally use both players for different things, but I'm a bit ignorant at times of all the features (and faults).
by Lunar at 1:02 PM EST on November 15, 2007: I used to use XMPlay for modules and such, but then I installed the BASS module core for Winamp, which I think is "good enough" - the standard Winamp module support is appalling. But yeah, using deliplayer for exotic formats sucks balls. I should probably use xmplay for those instead.

I try and use Winamp for everything, since it's convenient. My only irk with it is everything being called a "Winamp Media File" - and there being no "arrange by - file extention" in Explorer can be annoying.

TOPIC DERAILED.
by Knurek at 1:44 PM EST on November 15, 2007: Yea, BASS is the next best thing. Of course XMPlay's implementation has few things added (subsong suport for module files (Unreal games), VBLANK timing (Amiga Settlers game), patternviewer).
But for Winamp you won't find a better solution.
by unknownfile at 1:50 PM EST on November 15, 2007: in this thread, we talk about about media players and troll people who don't like winamp
by Richter X at 5:06 PM EST on November 15, 2007: *Whoops, wrong topic.*

edited 5:08 PM EST November 15, 2007
by kingshriek at 7:27 AM EST on November 19, 2007: Here's an updated version (0.12dev+2) of the Highly Theoretical-based KBMedia plugin:

http://snesmusic.org/hoot/kingshriek/ssf/kbht.zip

Added support for proper seeking and the length tag (though I still can't get fading to work).

Yes, I'm aware that KBMedia player isn't the ideal choice for non-Japanese users, but since an AOSDK-based plugin was posted on 2ch, it wasn't very difficult for me to implement the AOSDK-htcore interface that I already had with it.

I don't really plan on trying to get it to work with any other players any time soon (that I got it working in one is good enough for me). If someone else is interested in taking up the task, feel free to contact me (via the e-mail address on my rip page), and I can provide the source to the KBMedia plugin as a staring point.

edited 9:19 AM EST November 19, 2007
by marioman at 11:36 AM EST on November 19, 2007: I really would like to have it on Winamp. Is there some type of plugin wrapper that makes KBMedia plugins compatible with Winamp? I searched for one a little, but only came up with Japanese sites.

I guess I could go with that (provided it exists) or wait on Neill to finally get back with you.

edited 11:42 AM EST November 19, 2007
by unknownfile at 2:37 PM EST on November 19, 2007: I would be willing to port it but there's too much shit going on in my life at the moment, I'll get back to you later
by snakemeat at 2:41 PM EST on November 19, 2007: KbMediaPlayer English patch here: http://www.vorc.org/crew/hex125/

Takes minutes and it's a small price to pay to listen to some good music.
by marioman at 3:37 PM EST on November 19, 2007: Thanks for the link snakemeat. I tried KBMedia Player, but it just isn't what I am looking for. Thanks anyway - I guess I will just wait for UF to port the KBMedia plugin.

edited 3:38 PM EST November 19, 2007
by Lunar at 5:00 PM EST on November 19, 2007: Same, i'd rather wait for a winamp plugin.. be it highly theoretical or something else.

Still haven't e-mailed Neill myself yet; perhaps I should.
by unknownfile at 8:37 AM EST on November 20, 2007: took a look at the KbMediaPlayer plugin SDK last night.

it's a foobar2000 in japanese clothing.

looking at it this way, it'd be easy to port the plugin to winamp or at least write a wrapper for it. but knowing how neill is about these sorta things... well, yeah

edited 8:39 AM EST November 20, 2007
by marioman at 4:23 PM EST on November 20, 2007: Is it really so much like HT that it Neill could claim ownership? If not, I say go ahead.
by F3582 at 3:00 AM EST on November 26, 2007: And while you're at it... could anyone port it to Xine?
by unknownfile at 9:20 AM EST on November 26, 2007: i can't really promise anything, but i'll try
MDSF structs! by unknownfile at 12:51 PM EST on November 29, 2007: warning! warning! danger zone!
____

MDSF specification revision 1

Here is a struct that provides an example of the header layout.

typedef struct {
// Majick word and version: self explanatory
char MagicWord[4] = { 'M', 'D', 'S', 'F', };
unsigned char ver = 1;

// 250 bytes for expansion etc.
unsigned char padding_[250];

// the data itself follows. size is determined when the data is deflated or the file size is calculated.
// See the MDSF_ROM format below for information.
char * data;

} MDSF_FILE;

typedef struct {
char MagicWord[4] = { 'S','E','G','M', }; // "Segment"

// Length of the segment
unsigned long seglen;

// Determines what type of code this segment is.
// 0 = Z80, 1 = main 68000, 2 = Sega CD, 3 = Sega 32X.
char DeviceID;

// Load address: Loads the code in the segment to a certain address.
// With Z80 code, the first 0xFFFF bytes will be loaded into Z80 RAM,
// and the rest will be located into 68000 RAM at this address.
unsigned long Load_Addr;

// Init addresses: These all control where code starts.
// As Z80 code usually starts at 0x00, set this section to 0.
unsigned long Init_Addr;

// Play addresses: Updates the audio buffer. If the game uses the Z80
// as an audio processor, set all of these to 0.
unsigned long Play_Addr;

// The data itself follows.
unsigned char * data_section;

} MDSF_ROM;
by Richter X at 11:15 PM EST on November 29, 2007: Ooooh, pretty. >.>
by marioman at 9:06 AM EST on November 30, 2007: Glad to see that you are working on this again.
by marioman at 9:29 PM EST on December 2, 2007: Any word on an improved SSF plugin for Winamp? (HT or otherwise?)

edited 10:02 PM EST December 2, 2007
by unknownfile at 10:37 PM EST on December 2, 2007: SSF plugins? in MY winamp? It's less likely than you think.

I simplified the MDSF format by a LOT, making ripping a hell of a lot easier. It's in the vein of SPC, and I have tested some games and pretty much all of them use the Zilog Z80 processor for audio.

And yes, Sega CD and 32X will be supported by it. In fact, Knuckles' Chaotix on the 32X still uses a Z80 for sound processing. The only thing the 32X does that's even remotely related to audio is handle the PWM channels.

Further details will be coming soon.

In other news, I'm way behind on my school work.
by unknownfile at 7:50 AM EST on December 4, 2007: Got a test version of the Z80 dumper working last night. It has yet to undergo testing of any sort but I hope it'll be reliable at some point.
by marioman at 3:24 PM EST on December 4, 2007: Awesome! Automatic ripping is what really makes a format thrive.

edited 3:24 PM EST December 4, 2007
by unknownfile at 10:49 AM EST on December 5, 2007: Progress was made yesterday.

Stuff that's still needed to be done:
- test file loading
- make 68K CPU stops when Z80 dumps are being played
- implement 32X and Sega CD support
- test Sonic when no rom is present(data is loaded to Z80 before playback)

Even though Gens is GPL licensed, I refuse to use the license equivilent of AIDS, so I will just release the dumper/loader code seperately from Gens so that any emulator can go ahead and use it.
by Knurek at 12:15 PM EST on December 5, 2007: UF, maybe you should try going through some of the drivers listed here: http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/Mega_Drive/Genesis_Sound_Engine_List

And see if this Z80 dumping thingy doesn't by some chance work with only one or two drivers.
by unknownfile at 4:40 PM EST on December 5, 2007: Sonic the Hedgehog isn't going to work with this format as it is.

Which is no big loss, Sonic 2's music was much better.

___

Dynamite Headdy, on the other hand, does not work. Dammit.

___

Here are the header formats now. As you can see, there is some support for the 68000, which will be better as the format will be able to support ripped data.

Header Type MDZ: Type identifier

struct {
char Magic_Word = { 'M', 'D', 'Z', };
char Version;
}

Header Type Z80: State of the Z80 audio processor

struct {
char Magic_Word = { 'Z', '8', '0', };
// register map goes here.
}

Header Type PRG: Program section

struct {
char Magic_Word = { 'P', 'R', 'G', };
int CPU_Type; // 0 = Z80, 1 = 68000 (Sega CD), 2 = SH2 (32X)
unsigned int length;

char * data;

}

Header Type 68I: 68000 initialization section
Data is loaded by DAT (see below)

struct {
unsigned int Init_Addr;
unsigned int Play_Addr; // call this to keep stuff going

unsigned int ByteToChange; // Location of a byte that helps set a song code
unsigned int BytesNewValue; // changes the byte at BytesToChange to this given value

}

Header Type DAT: Data bank

struct {

char Magic_Word = { 'D', 'A', 'T', };

// load addr is 68000 memory!
unsigned int load_addr;
unsigned int length;

};

There are quite a few errors above so disregard it for now, and get on IRC if you want the full details.

edited 5:24 PM EST December 5, 2007
2sf revisited by unknownfile at 11:48 AM EST on December 8, 2007: Time to go back to old times when I was still working on 2sf.

I pulled out a 2sf test, and it seems like everything is working, even on my new PC.

Expect some progress by next Octember.
by nensondubois at 11:51 AM EST on December 8, 2007: You still want me to spread your word around looking for programmers for your 2SF format?

edited 11:54 AM EST December 8, 2007
by unknownfile at 1:17 PM EST on December 8, 2007: Most people don't understand that 2SF is stupid anyways.

IN OTHER NEWS

C:\>chkmdz Dump.mdz
Analyzing, please wait
at 0
MDZ Version: 1
at 4
Z80 section found. Stats:
Z80 Registers:
AF 5400 BC 8C DE 9C
HL 4001 IX 1FA0 IY CCA0
PC 78 SP 1FFD AF2 0
BC2 0 DE2 CF3E HL2 1D60 I 0
IFF 0 IFF2 0

Genesis Control Stuff:
Z80 State: 6 Bank: 00078000
End of section.

at 67
Program section found. Type: Unknown, assuming Z80
at 206F
Data section:
Load to 00078000, size is 00007FFF
at A079
Unrecognized header or end of file.

(dump was made from Battletoads)

edited 1:17 PM EST December 8, 2007
by nensondubois at 1:26 PM EST on December 8, 2007: I was going to make it "stumbleupon". stumbleupon.com
by marioman at 10:31 AM EST on December 12, 2007: kingshriek has 5 new SSF rips up. I still wish that there was a Winamp port of his SSF plugin.

Get them now.

edited 10:31 AM EST December 12, 2007
by unknownfile at 11:45 AM EST on December 12, 2007: i say we get hcs to make the plugin

failing that we just ask kingshriek to just give us the source code

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