HCS Forum - What's going on in other xsf formats

by Lunar at 6:10 AM EST on December 14, 2007: I keep looking over at kingshriek's page as well as modland, hoping to see Shining Wisdom, and every time I'm like "nooooooooo not there" :( but I'm otherwise really surprised by the amount of soundtracks already ripped... if you go look over at modland, there's a whole load of SSF stuff ripped in the span of like... two months? So it's very encouraging.

Yeah, still waiting on the SSF plugin. I don't suppose Neill ever did answer those emails...
by kingshriek at 8:43 AM EST on December 14, 2007: Rather than waiting, have you tried ripping Shining Wisdom yourself? It shouldn't be too difficult to do with the scripts I have provided (and I'd be willing to help at any step of the process).

Regarding the player side of things, I've been spending my time recently doing as much as I can to improve SSF playback in the open-source (MAME-license) Audio Overload SDK (http://rbelmont.mameworld.info/?page_id=221). The latest update I've made (not integrated yet as of this post) includes very noticeable improvements to the sound quality, producing comparable output to Neill's emulation core (the fixed version that is). Would be nice to see a Winamp plugin based on that someday. I've taken a look at the Winamp SDK myself, but I'm afraid it consists of more Win32 API voodoo than I'm comfortable with.

edited 8:45 AM EST December 14, 2007
by Knurek at 7:34 AM EST on December 15, 2007: Kingshriek, I've looked at Shining Wisdom, and surprise, surprise, it works even though it uses driver version 1.28 (94/12/29)

Okay, that was fast... And pretty easy, hopefully I didn't screw something up. Great music here (by Motoaki Takenouchi even).

www.snesmusic.org/hoot/sw_ssf.rar
www.snesmusic.org/hoot/sw_ssf_make.rar (seq/exb/map/tone/driver/tag data).

All files use the same tone data so this would benefit from minissf, but that's a little beyond my skills.

The detected times are somewhat strange (15 minutes for a Japanese game?), maybe it's another SSFTime bug?
edited 8:18 AM EST December 15, 2007

edited 8:48 AM EST December 15, 2007

edited 11:16 AM EST December 15, 2007

edited 3:06 PM EST December 15, 2007
by snakemeat at 11:46 AM EST on December 15, 2007: Hey Knurek, thanks for the work. Unfortunately, both of the links are already dead. Any ideas?
by Knurek at 3:07 PM EST on December 15, 2007: Argh, I'm stupid, I've posted the wrong links. They should work now. ;)
by Lunar at 4:55 PM EST on December 15, 2007: MERRY CHRISTMAS DAVE.

I was going to reply saying I might give it a shot too (even though I can barely rip an SPC, let alone anything else.) Thanks a load! Regardless of how easy or hard it was, it's great to finally have. Takenouchi is smashing, I recommend anything by him.

Yet again, HT lets it down a bit (crackling and distortion it seems?) At least there's htcore.exe.
gens32 mdz test build by unknownfile at 8:46 PM EST on December 15, 2007: is here

currently there is no way to play back the mdz files it produces, so you're on your own.

other than that, the sound emulation is really really shitty. just thought i'd let you know.
by kingshriek at 11:58 PM EST on December 15, 2007: Knurek: The timing data appears correct to me, or at least there's isn't anything else that really can be done in ssftime for these tracks. ssftime uses two sources of data to determine the track time - 1. the tempo data given in the track header and 2. the total accumulated no. of steps given by adding up all the step deltas in the sequence data. After getting these two values, if they end up different, ssftime tries to pick the most reasonable one.

There can be errors/weirdness in both of these data sources. For example, Golden Axe the Duel has zero as the number of steps in some of its tempo data. Also, I've seen sequence data with events corresponding to 30+ minutes of silence at the end of the track (one of the Doukoku Soshite tracks) for instance.

For the Shining Wisdom tracks, ssftime is reporting the same number of steps in both data sources for each track (which happens most of the time), and there isn't really much I can do if both data sources agree.

edited 11:59 PM EST December 15, 2007
by unknownfile at 9:01 AM EST on December 17, 2007: I am taking a look into how the generic Nintendo DS sequence driver works. What I know so far is:

1) The sequence bank is loaded
2) When asked to, the program converts a sound code into an offset
3) Snd_PlaySeq is called, and plays the sequence starting at the offset.

Before all of that, I'm going to need to find what is establishing what sequence to play. Let me take you back to a time when we were replacing sequence banks in Yoshi's Island DS.

Noticed how all the sounds seemed to work when the banks were switched. Theoretically, there is a table in the bank that establishes what sequences to load.

Tonight is a busy night so I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get this figured out by the time I go overseas to the land of people who shag kangaroos. I guess we'll need to wait and see.

____

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, no matter which way you're going to look at it, the 2sf format will be using savestates similar to the USF format, there's just too much crap going on when the system boots as well as all the threading that the DS operating system uses.

Opinions are welcome.

edited 11:06 AM EST December 17, 2007
by Lunar at 12:09 PM EST on December 17, 2007: Meh. Ripped NDS music is ripped NDS music, and I'm sure many other people feel similarly. Thus - whatever works.
by hcs at 6:02 PM EST on December 17, 2007: If ya just want to listen to these, vgmtrans plays them with the samples and all.
by Knurek at 6:05 PM EST on December 17, 2007: With a slew of errors to boot unfortunately.
It doesn't emulate the PSG channels of NDS so many songs are missing melody lines/etc...
by valiant at 6:37 PM EST on December 17, 2007: I suggest using some of the other NDS sound utilities. Links to creators are here, the rest is not hard to find.

I used ndssndext for the extraction of a lengthy streamed audio track and it worked better than VGMTrans (which cut off the audio after a few seconds). Maybe it works better with sequences and instrument banks, too. Haven't tested it, though.
by Penguin at 11:19 PM EST on December 17, 2007: vgmtrans doesn't even start for me, and I don't know why. it doesn't even return an error. I'm looking forward to a 2sf format, though.
by Knurek at 1:45 AM EST on December 18, 2007: Finally!
Some anonymous 2CH user has whipped up a Winamp SSF plugin based on the latest AOSDK source.

Seems to work fine with Winamp, crashes XMPlay though (will report it, so it should get fixed soon).

It's been uploaded to one of those low retention one click download Japanese sites, so it'll be down pretty soon. Maybe it should get mirrored somewhere...
by unknownfile at 8:36 AM EST on December 18, 2007: I can't say when stuff will be ready as I can't work on it from Thursday onwards, and after the Christmas break it's going to be exam time all the way through until June. But knowing me, I'll probably be a lazy asshole and get something done.

Last night I was working on a basic PSF parser, and I'm trying to figure out how to make the zlib decompressor work. As soon as I get that working, I will be able to get work started on hacking Phoenix Wright because the GBA version's music sounds like crap.
by marioman at 8:46 AM EST on December 18, 2007: @Knurek: Please post a link to the plugin if you can get it mirrored. I assume that the config dialog is in Japanese?

@UF: Nice to see some progress on 2SF. Keep it up.
by Knurek at 9:01 AM EST on December 18, 2007: There's no config dialog, and the about box is in English.

www.snesmusic.org/hoot/in_aossf.zip

edited 10:38 AM EST December 18, 2007
by unknownfile at 9:39 AM EST on December 18, 2007: Updated the 2sf page.

I expect that as soon as I release the winamp plugins and sets that I plan on making that bandwidth is going to go down the toilet pretty fast, so I might as well give a heads-up now.
by marioman at 10:47 AM EST on December 18, 2007: Thanks Knurek. Unfortunately, all it does is crash for me. When I load a SSF/miniSSF, it just dies. Any ideas what is going on?
by Knurek at 10:49 AM EST on December 18, 2007: If you're using XMPlay, then yeah it does only crash now. I've posted a bugreport already.
Works fine in Winamp 2.91 for now.
by Knurek at 10:52 AM EST on December 18, 2007: edited 10:52 AM EST December 18, 2007
by marioman at 11:04 AM EST on December 18, 2007: OK, tried it in an older version of Winamp and it works great. The starting volume is very low though. The version that is didn't work in was v5.34.

Is this supposed to be a final-ish release, or is the author going to continue to work on it? Features like seeking/tag support would be nice.

Thanks.
by Lunar at 11:23 AM EST on December 18, 2007: It's working for me in 5.35!

And yeah, this rocks. Sounds so much better.

Hopefully it'll have some work done on it. It'd be nice to have tag viewing/editing, seeking and all that jazz. But for now, this is great.
by Knurek at 11:28 AM EST on December 18, 2007: There's a source available in the archive. Feel free to add anything you think it's missing.
by Lunar at 11:35 AM EST on December 18, 2007: I noticed there's something up with vibrato. It's noticable on Sw04.ssf and Sw02b.ssf in the Shining Wisdom set. But heck, at least pitch bends work.

EDIT: also that set still seems to have those strange electronic beeps at the start of tracks. not sure what that's about but I haven't noticed it on any other sets.

EDIT 2: stuff on Shining the Holy Ark still sounds messed up too (sha-07.minissf for instance.)

and - I haven't played the game myself, but I can't imagine the vibrato would be out of tune like that in the game. It sounds as if vibrato is being emulated incorrectly as opposed to something wrong with the rip.

EDIT 3: Check out the NiGHTS rip, track "Growing Wings" (nights_7.minissf) Some of the high sounds around the half-minute mark are definitely not right. They even worked in highly theoretical to my knowledge!

I guess I should also clarify that I'm not pointing out this stuff to be anal/nitpicky. I'm doing it completely in the interests of helping the plugin to improve, now that it is in a position where it CAN improve.

edited 12:13 PM EST December 18, 2007
by Knurek at 11:38 AM EST on December 18, 2007: As compared with AO, or as compared with the original game?
Like I've said, there's a possibility I've borked something when I did the rip.

That Nights track sounds about the same in current AO, so it's certainly not the plugin's fault.

Anyone with the real hardware that could do the comparison recording?

edited 12:28 PM EST December 18, 2007
by Lunar at 12:40 PM EST on December 18, 2007: Saturn rip of "Growing Wings" - http://gh.ffshrine.org/song/2954/15
by kingshriek at 12:42 PM EST on December 18, 2007: >>I noticed there's something up with vibrato.
>>It's noticable on Sw04.ssf and Sw02b.ssf in the
>>Shining Wisdom set.

What's strange about this is that the vibrato here is done in software, not by using the hardware PLFO in the SCSP. I doubt the problem is due to a CPU core bug, so it's probably being cause by a timer problem. Or perhaps it's a pitch problem in general.

>>also that set still seems to have those strange
>>electronic beeps at the start of tracks. not sure
>>what that's about but I haven't noticed it on any
>>other sets.

It's because the game uses an earlier version of the sound driver. When the DSP is initialized, there will be a hiccup in sound. Later driver versions handle this by disabling the effect out mixer for a short time after loading a DSP program.

>>stuff on Shining the Holy Ark still sounds messed
>>up too (sha-07.minissf for instance.)

This one is a bit weird. A non-zero MDL (modulation level) in some of the layer data is causing the slot assignment to get messed up. The end result of this is that the driver ends up trying to play all of the software channels with a single hardware slot, so the sounds keep interrupting each other. If you change all the MDL values to zero, it plays "correctly" (sans modulation), but I would like to resolve the problem without this sort of hack. Would be good to produce an ssf this track from a sound memory dump in-game and see if the problem still happens.

>>Check out the NiGHTS rip, track "Growing Wings"
>>(nights_7.minissf) Some of the high sounds
>>around the half-minute mark are definitely not
>>right. They even worked in highly theoretical to
>>my knowledge!

Not really sure what's causing this one. It could be related to the same problem thats occurring with Shining Wisdom. I can't really check here, since ssfinfo doesn't quite work properly with NiGHTS due to it's non-standard sequence handling.

edited 1:07 PM EST December 18, 2007
by marioman at 2:48 PM EST on December 18, 2007: I found why the plugin wouldn't work for me. Apparently it has some type of conflict with in_zip. When in_zip is installed, the filename for the SSF plugin is listed as winamp.exe and not in_aossf.dll.

Not sure what can be done about that. (Other than uninstalling in_zip.)
by kingshriek at 4:01 PM EST on December 18, 2007: In other news, I've managed to produce some more DSFs that sound decent.

Here's a pack of Sakura Taisen 3 tracks that are in Sakura Taisen Online:
http://snesmusic.org.nyud.net/hoot/kingshriek/other/sto_st3_test.7z

I would prefer to get them from 3 itself, but I don't have a BBA or an ARRRRRed copy so I can't get access to the game's MLT files.

This is just a test rip (untagged/untimed/incomplete), so I prefer that it not be archived anywhere.
by Knurek at 5:44 PM EST on December 18, 2007: Here's another SSF rip, Super Robot Wars F Final.

I've uploaded the files to Modland, so they should be available tomorrow.
Here are the files required for making the SSF, kingshriek, feel free to delete the pack once you add it to your site (that is, if you plan on adding my rips).

www.snesmusic.org/hoot/srt_f_final_ssf_make.rar

//Edit

Gah, I'm stupid, forgot about the ending track.
Reuploaded the whole pack.

Now if only some place had Japanese Saturn games available (certain hustling site has full American set, but most of the stuff there is streamed)... I seriously can't believe how easy this stuff is. ;)

edited 5:54 PM EST December 18, 2007
by kingshriek at 6:26 PM EST on December 18, 2007: I'll add them. No problem. Site updates have just taken a backseat to the AO/MAME SCSP emulation improvements I've been working on.

Although I have generated the set from the raw files you have provided, I'll think wait until the files are available on Modland before I make the update (although I'm not quite sure why you are not just providing a link to the final SSFs than the input files you have used to generate them.)

Heh, I feel the same way about the availability of Japanese Dreamcast games - I'd really love to do a proper DSF rip of Sakura Taisen 3 (fully timed/tagged and everything). Guess I'll just have to be patient (I'm definitely not going to spend $100+ on a BBA just so I can rip the ~1-3 sequenced games from my personal collection).
by Knurek at 7:00 PM EST on December 18, 2007: Well, the files are provided just as a failsafe in case I've screwed something (bad offset at exb ripping, wrong dsp map, god knows what else can go wrong here).

Here are the final ssfs: www.snesmusic.org/hoot/srt_f_final.rar
by unknownfile at 7:02 PM EST on December 18, 2007: lib2sf, built Dec 18 2007 15:37:35
16
reading code...decompressing...code unpacked OK!
ROM size established as 00000008 bytes
end of code section, assuming everything's loaded OK.

Parser is now working.
by Knurek at 2:30 AM EST on December 19, 2007: Kingshriek, it's actually possible to dump GD-ROM games using standard PC drive.

More details here: http://dknute.livejournal.com/8098.html

Translated into english: http://forums.ngemu.com/misc-dreamcast-discussion/79778-new-dc-emulator-5.html#post1159202

//Edit

Here's another one, Blazing Heroes aka Riglord Saga

www.snesmusic.org/hoot/bh_ssf.rar

This was kinda funny, required me to hack my own MAP file (one of the tone data was larger than 0x6D000). No EXB programs on disc, not really that strange I guess when you have 95% of 68000 RAM taken by samples. ;)

I'll try Albert Odyssey next, looks kinda painful though (multiple TON banks per SEQ). What's the standard procedure here, should I add them in the order tonext.py extracts them, or some other way?

edited 1:44 PM EST December 19, 2007
by unknownfile at 2:16 PM EST on December 19, 2007: i fucking hate minipsf
by kingshriek at 2:39 PM EST on December 19, 2007: >> This was kinda funny, required me to hack my own
>> MAP file (one of the tone data was larger than
>> 0x6D000). No EXB programs on disc, not really
>> that strange I guess when you have 95% of 68000
>> RAM taken by samples. ;)

Hmm, are you sure about that? In some of the tracks I'm seeing non-zero effect-out mixer values as well as non-zero effect-in mixer data in the voice layers (doesn't guarantee that the game uses the DSP, but indicates that it might).

The best way to check for DSP use is to check the actual area map that the game itself uses. If you can't find it in the game data, then grab a sound memory dump from an emulator and check the area map that way.

EDIT: Well, actually, only BGM01.ssf has a non-zero effect-out mixer in it's tone data.

>> I'll try Albert Odyssey next, looks kinda
>> painful though (multiple TON banks per SEQ).
>> What's the standard procedure here, should I
>> add them in the order tonext.py extracts them,
>> or some other way?

No standard procedure here. I would check the archive that the tone/sequence data is in (via a hex editor), and see if they are packaged together in such a manner where they can be matched up easily. If not, then you either have to try to manually match them up (if you have a soundtrack to compare the results with) or you can just try dumping the SSFs from an emulator (if that is feasible).

I actually have a WIP Kakyuusei rip that I'll probably never finish because I have no way to match up the tone and sequence data (game has no sound test that I'm aware of and playing through it until all the music has been accessed is not something I really want to do.)

edited 2:54 PM EST December 19, 2007
PHOENIX WRIGHT: ASS ATTORNEY by unknownfile at 5:00 PM EST on December 19, 2007: if (armcpu->R[15] == 0x02060BB8){
MessageBox(NULL,"i c whut u did thar","ay",MB_OK);
armcpu->R[1]=soundcode;
}

OH THE SUSPENSE
by Knurek at 5:03 PM EST on December 19, 2007: >> Hmm, are you sure about that? In some of the
>> tracks I'm seeing non-zero effect-out mixer
>> values as well as non-zero effect-in mixer
>> data in the voice layers (doesn't guarantee
>> that the game uses the DSP, but indicates that
>> it might).

I did byte search the iso and it's contents for '.exb' didn't found anything, so yea, I'm pretty sure it's not there. I was thinking the header of BGM files was the exb, but that mato appears in all datafiles from the game, and it's obviously shorter than 1344 bytes.

And I have the worst luck when it comes to getting Saturn emulators to run. SSF doesn't even run (SSE2 required) and all Yabause does is show the BIOS CD player (it does detects the CD, and I've tried with all three BIOSes and few games, so I'm stumped here).

>> No standard procedure here. I would check the
>> archive that the tone/sequence data is in (via
>> a hex editor), and see if they are packaged
>> together in such a manner where they can be
>> matched up easily. If not, then you either

Oh, they are, 70 separate files with all the data encapsulated.
What I meant was how am I supposed to add the separate TON files? I've tried doing the '68000ram.bin' addition, but the script crashes at bank #2 with 'failed to write sequence data' error.

Just look for yourself: www.snesmusic.org/hoot/MAP000.SNF

tonext and seqext will extract TON/SEQ

MAP file starts at 0x00B0 to 0x00FA. The first tone bank has the data rougly the same as MAP000_001.BIN, the second one has size like MAP000_002.BIN, and on.

Driver starts at 0x00FA. You've said that one should extract 28672 bytes, are you sure it's supposed to be that much? Or is it just a failsafe for larger than standard drivers?

EXB file is at the end, last 1344 bytes.

I've tried doing a SSF with the provided MAP (I've set the transfer bits though) and only the first TON file, still doesn't play. I've used the Shining Wisdom driver as well, still doesn't play, so it isn't a driver issue.
by kingshriek at 5:27 PM EST on December 19, 2007: >>I did byte search the iso and it's contents for
>>'.exb' didn't found anything, so yea, I'm pretty
>>sure it's not there.

Yeah, that's a pretty good sign that they aren't. Just wanted to make sure of things, that's all.

>>I've tried doing the '68000ram.bin' addition, but
>>the script crashes at bank #2 with 'failed to
>>write sequence data' error.

Yeah, that error shouldn't be happening. It is because there's a bug in the script. I have fixed it and uploaded it to the page.

>>Just look for yourself:
>>www.snesmusic.org/hoot/MAP000.SNF

That's actually nicely organized, thanks to the header with offset/size information and what kind of data it is (reminds me of the Dreamcast's MLT files somewhat). In these cases where I can get the necessary extraction info from the file itself, I tend to use that than rely on general tools such as seqext and tonext.

Based on that file, I put together an extractor script. I've also written up an example ssfmake.py to work with it so you can see how to deal with multiple tone banks (it's kludgey, but it works). Hopefully it will answer your questions (scroll down to the bottom of the ssfmake.py file to see the scripting).

http://snesmusic.org/hoot/kingshriek/other/albert_ext.zip

Also, if you are using ssfmake.py, you don't need to manually set the transfer bits. The script will do that for you.
by unknownfile at 5:56 PM EST on December 19, 2007: I now have Phoenix Wright sitting here doing nothing but playing music. Great success!

Also, the subroutine that plays music. Set r1 to something to play a sound code.

ROM:02060BB8 PlaySound ; CODE XREF: sub_20254E4+44p
ROM:02060BB8 ; sub_2025874+10p ...
ROM:02060BB8
ROM:02060BB8 var_18 = -0x18
ROM:02060BB8 var_14 = -0x14
ROM:02060BB8
ROM:02060BB8 STMFD SP!, {R4,R5,LR}
ROM:02060BBC SUB SP, SP, #0xC
ROM:02060BC0 MOV R4, R1
ROM:02060BC4 MOV R5, R0
ROM:02060BC8 MOV R0, R4
ROM:02060BCC BL sub_205F8D8
ROM:02060BD0 CMP R0, #0
ROM:02060BD4 ADDEQ SP, SP, #0xC
ROM:02060BD8 MOVEQ R0, #0
ROM:02060BDC LDMEQFD SP!, {R4,R5,LR}
ROM:02060BE0 BXEQ LR
ROM:02060BE4 STR R0, [SP,#0x18+var_18]
ROM:02060BE8 STR R4, [SP,#0x18+var_14]
ROM:02060BEC LDRB R1, [R0,#9]
ROM:02060BF0 LDRH R2, [R0,#4]
ROM:02060BF4 LDRB R3, [R0,#8]
ROM:02060BF8 MOV R0, R5

edited 5:58 PM EST December 19, 2007
by marioman at 9:30 PM EST on December 19, 2007: Congratulations! When you get done with Phoenix Wright are you going to stick with Capcom games and rip Mega Man ZX/Mega Man ZX Advent?
by unknownfile at 9:37 PM EST on December 19, 2007: As soon as it's running in a music player, of course.

And besides, I can just as well plop in another SDAT file and have the Phoenix Wright code play it although I'm sure there'll be incompatibilities at some point.

Also, load this savestate into a generic copy of Desmume to hear the objection music (or whatever's assigned to sound code 4 in the sdat). You'll need the US version to get it to work.

I'm expecting older computers to crumble to pieces with the requirements for the player, so get upgrading, you lazy bastards.

edited 9:47 PM EST December 19, 2007
by marioman at 10:05 PM EST on December 19, 2007: Isn't that Microsoft's motto? :P
by unknownfile at 10:12 PM EST on December 19, 2007: perhaps it is

I have now dropped off the face of the internets, and will stay away for either two weeks or forever depending on how the flight goes.

edited 11:01 PM EST December 19, 2007
by Knurek at 11:37 AM EST on December 20, 2007: >>That's actually nicely organized, thanks to the
>>header with offset/size information and what
>>kind of data it is (reminds me of the
>>Dreamcast's MLT files somewhat).

Thanks, that shortened the rip process immensely.
Gonna encode the CDDA tracks as well and put it on Sendspace (feel free to strip those when hosting on the site).

Here are the files: http://www.sendspace.com/file/llpczt

Speaking of Dreamcast, a friend of mine has Sakura Taisen 4 (done by Overworks, so there's a chance it uses sequenced music as well). He says there are no MLT files readily available, would you be interested in tackling the game? I can up the ISO or select files someplace.

Also, one other thing. I've noticed that the some of the Albert Odyssey SEQs have subsongs ('sequence data contains x tracks'). Is this something I should be aware of when ripping music? Didn't see that message pop up with former rips, but those were non psflibs...

edited 2:10 PM EST December 20, 2007
by kingshriek at 6:42 PM EST on December 20, 2007: >>Speaking of Dreamcast, a friend of mine has Sakura
>>Taisen 4 (done by Overworks, so there's a chance
>>it uses sequenced music as well). He says there
>>are no MLT files readily available, would you be
>>interested in tackling the game? I can up the ISO
>>or select files someplace.

I wouldn't mind taking a look at it. Hopefully there are MLT files buried in there somewhere in an uncompressed form. MLT files will begin with the string "SMLT" with other strings such as "SMSB", "SMPB", etc. afterwards in 32 byte intervals.

>>Also, one other thing. I've noticed that the
>>some of the Albert Odyssey SEQs have subsongs
>>('sequence data contains x tracks'). Is this
>>something I should be aware of when ripping
>>music? Didn't see that message pop up with
>>former rips, but those were non psflibs...

Yes, it is something you should be aware of. ssfmake will rip all the tracks present in the sequence data in .minissf form if the output filename ends in .ssflib. Otherwise, for a plain .ssf, the track parameter in the script will select which track to be played. The Sega Saturn SEQ format is really a sequence container format and can contain anywhere from 1 to hundreds of tracks.

edited 6:43 PM EST December 20, 2007
by anewuser at 12:02 PM EST on December 21, 2007: @Knurek: Now if only some place had Japanese Saturn games available (certain hustling site has full American set, but most of the stuff there is streamed)...

underground-gamer? got invites if you need them.
by Knurek at 2:50 PM EST on December 21, 2007: Well, I've been banned there two times already. The place hates my ISP (I can download fine, uploading for ratio isn't possible).

Still, thanks for the thought.

// Edit

Kingshriek, the Albert Odyssey link is dead. :)

Also, one other thing. Would you consider writing an automated PSF timer as well (for the sets using the standard driver?). SEQ/VAB and CSL is rather well documented. There's PGConv (http://www.tukinami.com/) that can conver them to MIDI, but that doesn't help with more than one loop.

Would be pretty nice, there are over 150 untimed sets (mostly using standard drivers) which got close to no chance of seeing the timing data.
And the existing timed sets do need a recheck from time to time as well.

edited 3:43 AM EST December 22, 2007
by Lunar at 9:22 AM EST on December 23, 2007: Going back to the Shining Wisdom/NiGHTS pitch issue - I made a couple of recordings; one from the new Winamp plugin, one from htcore.exe. Notice that the second one (htcore) doesn't have the problem. I don't have Audio Overload myself so I can't check myself whether it's a problem inherent to AO or just an issue specifically with this Winamp plugin.

http://www.vgmusic.com/~lunar/shiningwisdomtowncomparison.mp3

Also, does htcore.exe work with minissfs? Then I could check whether the issue I noticed in "Growing Wings" isn't happening in htcore.exe too (and I estimate that it isn't, since Shining Wisdom sounds fine, and I do indeed think it's the same generalised pitch problem that they both have.)

Thanks for Blazing Heroes too. Cool soundtrack.

edited 9:41 AM EST December 23, 2007
by Knurek at 9:35 AM EST on December 23, 2007: I'll do Clockwork Knight games next, but this will take a while. Should be up before the new year though. :)
by MarkGrass at 12:15 PM EST on December 23, 2007: Without having to search through 60-some odd threads, where can I find tools to create SSFs?
by Knurek at 12:35 PM EST on December 23, 2007: http://snesmusic.org/hoot/kingshriek/ssf has all you need.
The process is *really* simple, much easier than PSF ripping (even with your and davironica drivers) thanks to the tools kingshriek wrote.

Proper Winamp plugin available here: http://www.snesmusic.org/hoot/in_aossf.zip
by marioman at 1:07 PM EST on December 23, 2007: htcore.exe works on minissfs. Just specify them the program argument.

So does in_aossf not use htcore.exe as its playback core? I thought that it did.
i\'m not quite by unknownfile at 5:02 PM EST on December 23, 2007: yay for sydney harbor with their cheap internets access.

anyways, 2sf stuff:

i tested the rom with another sound bank before i left and i can confirm it works.

i hope to have a player ready for the end of january.

now if you'll excuse me i need to catch a ferry to get across the harbor.
by MarkGrass at 10:51 PM EST on December 23, 2007: @Knurek - Thanks a million! And you're right, it is alot easier than PSF! xD

@unknownfile - I will love you forever if you test the SDAT that I am providing at the link below with the WIP NDS Driver and post the results! Please! xD

BioHazard DS .SDAT
by Lunar at 6:58 AM EST on December 24, 2007: "So does in_aossf not use htcore.exe as its playback core? I thought that it did."

As I understand it: it uses Audio Overload's core. htcore.exe is what kingshriek made based on the changes to Highly Theoretical's core. So yeah, they're different cores.

All I know is, htcore is doing something right that AO isn't (or at least the Winamp plugin isn't... I really should download AO.) Infact htcore sounds better to me on the whole right now, if the Winamp plugin is anything to go by. I'm sure it'll get fixed up nicely though.

Can't friggin wait for 2SF soundtracks~
by marioman at 9:09 AM EST on December 24, 2007: You know, this whole SSF plugin thing would be resolved if Neill would just E-mail kingshriek and give the OK to update Highly Theoretical. Better yet, maybe Neill will update HT himself as a Christmas present to us all.

I can't wait for the 2SF soundtracks either. Hopefully rips of the two Mega Man ZX games will be available soon.

edited 9:10 AM EST December 24, 2007
by anewuser at 10:31 AM EST on December 24, 2007: if Neill would just E-mail kingshriek and give the OK to update Highly Theoretical

Neill probably doesn't have the time due to work/family. We might also forgot that he could say 'no' altogether. Let's be happy with what we have. YAY!
by Lunar at 12:48 PM EST on December 24, 2007: He should reply to the e-mails and say that he doesn't have the time to work on the plugin (if that is the case), and/or clarify that he will/won't allow people to work on it. To my knowledge, he never even gave an answer on the matter at all, which is more frustrating than if he were to give a less than ideal answer. It'd still be an answer, then the issue could be put to bed.

Fortunately it isn't as pressing an issue as it was.
2sf specs by unknownfile at 8:52 PM EST on January 1, 2008: Ayep, they're done and done.

yay

Vacation's pretty much done, I'm just lazing around in Cairns at the moment. I'll be getting home around 10 pm tomorrow so I'm probably going to go to sleep or something due to all the flights I need to take (4 in total).

This specification also contains a small ripping guide which I can't say is 100% accurate but I will be releasing a generic driver ripper when I get the chance.

Exams are coming up so I'm not quite sure if I can do this or not within a week or so, but I hope a small command-line player will be ready in a bit.
hey guess what i got working by unknownfile at 12:01 PM EST on January 5, 2008: lib2sf, built Jan 5 2008 10:37:49
lib2sf_new: No 2sf to load. Assuming we're going to use a rom and savestate.
lib2sf of Jan 5 2008 10:23:55 initialized OK
by unknownfile, 2007, 2008
This software comes without a license. You may use it
for whatever purpose you need.
Desmume emulation core initialized OK
Desmume 0.7.7 (c) yopyop and the Desmume team
www.desmume.org - Code licensed under the GNU General Public License v2.
Loading ROM...
Initializing sound hardware...
Running. Hit any key to exit. (. = Running, ! = couldn't write, ? = written)
!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.
?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!
.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?
!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?!.?

Emulation works but no audio is written. I dunno why this is, so I'm going to need to find out.

Also, regarding generic driver ripping, it seems that most games are locked to using a single sequence bank (as occasionally reads turn up 0 instead of a proper memory offset). As a result I am currently attempting to find the library documentation for the sequence player but have come up with nothing so far.
KSS archive and stuff by unknownfile at 3:53 PM EST on January 6, 2008: I have uploaded my KSS collection, and I ripped two and fixed one.

For the record, here are the new/updated sets.

Alex Kidd The Lost Stars
Fantasy Zone 2 The Tears of Opa-Opa
Ys - The Vanished Omens (now with FM sound)

All three use FM sound, and due to how the SMS detects the FM chip, they were easy to rip.
by marioman at 8:24 AM EST on January 7, 2008: 6 new SSF sets are available at kingshriek's page:

Assault Suit Leynos 2
Atelier Marie - The Alchemist of Salburg
Clockwork Knight
Clockwork Knight 2
Linkle Liver Story
Panzer Dragoon Saga

Get them while they're hot.

edited 8:25 AM EST January 7, 2008
Mega Man X7 by Rew at 3:07 PM EST on January 7, 2008: Alright, I know I'm a solid two years late on this one, but I'm looking for the Mega Man X7 PSF2 set, which I know "unknownfile" uploaded two years ago. Naturally, the file is long since expired now. Any possibility of a re-upload?

Actually, I'll say more specifically what I'm looking for--the staff credit roll at the end of the game. The versions I currently have, both from the OST, have singing in them (even the supposed "karaoke" version). What I want is the completely voice-free version you hear at the end of the actual game itself (the American version of the game, at any rate). I have all the other tracks.

So I'd really be content either with PSF2 or even MP3. Thanks!

EDIT: 666th post in this thread! >=D

edited 3:48 PM EST January 7, 2008
by Knurek at 4:35 PM EST on January 7, 2008: ftp://ftp.modland.com/pub/modules/Playstation%20Sound%20Format/Yuko%20Komiyama/Megaman%20X%207/
by marioman at 4:40 PM EST on January 7, 2008: *Snoops around UF's site*

Here you go:

http://unknown.hcs64.com/psf2/Completed%20Stuff/Mega.Man.X7.PSF2-UNKNOWNFILE.zip

Just be careful with the server. It tends to be a little finicky. As I said in another post, it is advisable to use a download manager (not accelerator) that can resume interrupted downloads.

It should be noted that the set is sadly missing the Theme of X and the Credits Theme. Either these tracks are XA-Audio (unrippable in PSF) or UF just didn't rip them. He can probably tell you what is going on.

If they are XA, I believe that they can still be dumped to a wave using some method that I am unfamiliar with.

EDIT:

Outposted. My link leads to the same set as Knurek's link.

edited 4:49 PM EST January 7, 2008
by unknownfile at 5:08 PM EST on January 7, 2008: i don't believe they were on the disc or if they were just soundtrack exclusive but i just ripped the ADS streams as they're the only things that worked in the psf2 environment.
by Rew at 7:48 PM EST on January 7, 2008: Oh no! Yeah, the Credits Theme was the one I was looking for too. Is there any way to grab that tune at all? I even have a copy of the disc myself. Is there a way I can fiddle around with it in my computer so as to extract that one song myself? (It doesn't have to be PSF2 either--I'd go for an MP3, WAV, whatever I could get. LoL)

Thanks!

(Random side question: Is "Theme of X" that music that plays during the cutscene when you unlock X after rescuing 64 Reploids?)
by marioman at 8:41 PM EST on January 7, 2008: Not sure where the Theme of X is played. I was just comparing the PSF set to the OST.

While we are talking about Mega Man X, why are the X8 ADX files split into two archives? Just out of curiosity.
by hcs at 2:00 AM EST on January 8, 2008: For the splitting I guess that it was originally uploaded to a service that only allowed 90 MB files.
by unknownfile at 7:35 AM EST on January 8, 2008: i don't have the image for mmx7 but i'll look around for it when i have the chance
by Rew at 9:03 AM EST on January 8, 2008: Thanks, UF!
by marioman at 9:39 AM EST on January 8, 2008: Just for reference, I have looked over the OST and PSF set and here are the tracks that are missing from the PSF set:

Beginning - Theme of Red
Theme of X
Opening
Ending
Lazy Mind

I see that there is an Opening track in the PSF set, but it is 6 minutes long whereas the OST track is only about 2 minutes long.
by unknownfile at 11:51 AM EST on January 8, 2008: the opening track contains the cutscene audio from the opening cutscene. you'd think they'd make seperate files for voices and music but noooooooooo...

actually it's better that way since it saves cpu time but whatever.

anyways tonight is study night. if I can get the time i'm going to test out a theory about switching sequence banks in DS games.

also it's my birthday and stuff. 17 this time, next year i can drink beer in most countries as well as obtain legally the pr0ns although mom will complain about it.
by Rew at 12:07 PM EST on January 8, 2008: Happy birthday! What will be doing to celebrate tonight? (Besides teh pr0ns.) 17 is a bit of a landmark, but not as much as 18 is. =P
by unknownfile at 1:59 PM EST on January 8, 2008: nothing really

1) do nothing of use
2) study/homework
3) sleep
by marioman at 2:08 PM EST on January 8, 2008: NEZPlug++ v0.9.4.8 + 2 + 16.2 released. Testing now.
by Rew at 2:22 PM EST on January 8, 2008: UF: I'm still looking for that end credits theme from X7, but so as not to trouble you with it anymore, do you think I might be able to simply put the disc into my computer and try to extract that one track by using a program of some sort?

(I'm very new to all this stuff and haven't myself ripped before. =P)
by marioman at 4:14 PM EST on January 8, 2008: I think that he is planning to look into it. Just give him time.
by unknownfile at 9:31 PM EST on January 8, 2008: yeah, look for files of the ads format, they play in in_cube.

other than that i can't really say much.
by Rew at 11:36 PM EST on January 8, 2008: (Could've sworn I posted this already....)

Woohoo, I got it!! What I did was download PSS Plex, which allowed me to open PSS files. The Staff Credit theme on X7 just happens to be a PSS file. So using Plex, I converted the audio part of that file first to WAV format and then to my preferred MP3 format.

Wow, I'm excited, though--it's my first ever track rip! (Well, except for a tiny X3 Capcom Logo rip for the PS version earlier tonight. We all gotta start somewhere.)

In case anyone's interested, here it is below (it's effectively the instrumental version of "Lazy Mind," what you hear during the end credits of the American version of the game):
Mega Man X7 - Staff Credits
by marioman at 7:16 AM EST on January 9, 2008: Good job! If you stumble upon any other tracks, would you mind uploading them too? Thanks.
by unknownfile at 9:54 AM EST on January 9, 2008: My theory about SDAT files is that they are verified by the game before playback actually happens, meaning a checksum is generated. I have verified how the thing is loaded (in particular, file size doesn't matter).

Why they would require a checksum for sound files is beyond me. I'll try looking for whatever calculates the checksum and go from there.
by marioman at 10:42 AM EST on January 9, 2008: Has any progress been made on SNSF? CS2 hasn't updated his SNSF directory in ages. Is he posting updates somewhere else?

edited 10:45 AM EST January 9, 2008
by unknownfile at 11:08 AM EST on January 9, 2008: No, I guess not.

Also, I have finished work on a preliminary KSS page where I will post KSS stuff. I'm currently trying to figure out how to rip the music from the SMS BIOSes but no luck so far.

edited 11:08 AM EST January 9, 2008
by Rew at 3:09 PM EST on January 9, 2008: Mario: I have some Capcom Logo jingles from X3-X5 that I can upload later tonight when I'm not at work. ;0)

Also, I'll look into the X7 tracks you mentioned on the previous page, though my suspicion is that most of those will have SFX and/or voices in them. =(

I also want to play around with X8 too, since its FMV music was, tragically, not included in the OST. D'= (My hopes are not high for that one, however.)

UF: Did you have a good birthday?
by marioman at 4:38 PM EST on January 9, 2008: X8's music is in ADX, so there is not any weird format stuff to go through there. I would think that the FMV stuff would be included in the ADX files, but you never can tell. I'll have to check.
by Rew at 6:26 PM EST on January 9, 2008: What program does one normally use to open ADX files, if I might ask?
by Mouser X at 7:03 PM EST on January 9, 2008: The Megaman X8 music is available on this site already, and can be played using in_cube (it's a Winamp plugin). You can find the ADXs here. However, if you already have the game, then it'd be nice if you got them off your own copy to help alleviate HCS's bandwidth. If you're wondering why it's in two files, (someone asked, I don't remember who, or what thread), it's because that's how Sir-Sabin uploaded them. He put them on Rapidshare, or something, and I didn't bother re-archving them when I uploaded the set to HCS's site.

Marioman is right. If the files you're looking for aren't in the ADX set, then I doubt they're (easily) obtainable. On the other hand, they might be in some movie file (I forget the ADX extension for movies). There's a tool that can extract ADXs from the movies, but all I know is that adXtract (available on the in_cube page. It can extract ADX files from essentially anything that might contain ADXs, so long as the program can understand the ADX header.) can't do it.

In_cube has a plethora of other uses as well, since it can play oodles of formats (there's a newer version that can play about twice as many formats as the current version can, but it's not here...). Hopefully you'll find this useful. Mouser X over and out.

edited 7:12 PM EST January 9, 2008
by Rew at 9:11 PM EST on January 9, 2008: Now onto my next question: How do I open .bin files? From what I read elsewhere online, it looks like a complicated procedure. Does anyone know if MagicISO is any good? Or does anyone have a better recommendation?

Oh, and thanks Mouser for your help too!
by Mouser X at 9:45 PM EST on January 9, 2008: There's ISObuster, it's pretty good. However, it might only work on ISO files (though, BIN files are often ISO. Or, at least, I've often been able to read them as ISOs). There's also Daemon or Alcohol 120%. CD Mage might work as well, I can't remember. Nero (the CD burning software) can often work. Disk(Disc?)Juggler might work, but it's been a long time since I used that.

Really, I think Daemon is probably your best bet. Using that software will mount the image (if its a CD/DVD ISO, of course) as though it's an actual CD/DVD. In other words, using that software, the BIN file will appear as a new drive on your computer.

Hopefully, this is what you were asking. Of course, many games use BIN files for their data, so you might have been asking for that instead. If that's what you were asking, the only help I can offer is to look at the in_cube page, and see if any of the tools there will work for you. Or, if that's still not enough, you can always join the IRC channel (#usf on irc.freenode.net) and ask for some assitance there. Be patient though, as it often takes time for someone to answer.

Of course, that's not to say you can't ask on the forums. I'm just trying to provide you with other avenues of persuit for your answers, if they're needed. Mouser X over and out.

edited 9:49 PM EST January 9, 2008
by Rew at 10:20 PM EST on January 9, 2008: Aaaaaaack, so frustrating!!

I downloaded Daemon, and it didn't work. Apparently, it's suppose to "trick" my computer into thinking the .bin file is an extra drive. Well, a new drive came up when I followed the instructions, except my computer caught on to the trick (stupid Vista)--saying "Windows cannot access this drive." Every other attempt to use Daemon to open up the .bin file met with failure.

The particular .bin file I'm trying to open is COM_BGM.BIN on the Mega Man X Collection for PS2. So I went to the in_cube page, and it appeared that I was in luck! There was something precisely for the X Collection there, PAKthis 0.0, which specifically extract bin files on the X Collection. Lo and behold, I downloaded it, and when I went to install it, it did literally nothing.

Finally, to cap off the night, I tried to type in irc.freenode.net into my web browser, but apparently that site is down. =(

So, um, any further help? LoL

(I'm going to try the other suggestions, like ISObuster, but maybe you can give me more specific help in the meantime.)
by unknownfile at 10:40 PM EST on January 9, 2008: Because stereo OPLL sound wasn't enough, I'm adding stereo support for all the other sound chips that MSXplug emulates. This comes at the cost of homework time but hey, who the hell cares about poetry besides homos?
by Rew at 10:52 PM EST on January 9, 2008: Wait a minute, was hcs referring to the GameCube version of X Collection or PS2 version--or either/or?

Oh, and add MagicISO to the long list of programs that won't open the .bin file. It tells me: "Can't find the file or file isn't CD image file!"

edited 10:53 PM EST January 9, 2008
by hcs at 3:41 AM EST on January 10, 2008: I really don't remember what version that was intended for, but probably GC as that's what interested me at the time. Might still work on the other, it expects little-endian integers.
pakthis is a command line program, you don't install it besides extracting it somewhere. You might be able to get away with dragging the .bin file onto the .exe, but I don't know where the files would wind up, and you'll miss the diagnostic output.
by marioman at 6:26 AM EST on January 10, 2008: I don't know much about CD image stuff, but I thought that .bin files always came with a .cue file. Daemon should be able to open .cue files.
by F3582 at 10:14 AM EST on January 10, 2008: You could basically write your own cue sheet, if you know which byte format the .bin file is (there are only two). Just copy and paste the contents of a random cue sheet of your choice and see if it works.
by snakemeat at 10:54 AM EST on January 10, 2008: The particular .bin file I'm trying to open is COM_BGM.BIN on the Mega Man X Collection for PS2

You cannot mount any file with a BIN extension. It sounds like you already obtained access to the ISO image or used the actual disc. That is what these programs you are using are for, disc images, not any old file with the BIN extension. BIN is such an overused extension, it may be in your interest to look for a file header to determine the actual type.

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