Muting USF channels by TheUltimateKoopa at 2:25 PM EST on January 15, 2009
I read an old thread here from 2005 where someone said they managed to use the sm64.usflib to mute channels. How is this done? And can you mute channels on any song so that, for example, just the drums play, or just, say the slap bass in "Super Mario 64 Main Theme"? I know with Banjo-Kazooie, you can use a hex editor for each song and edit certain values to mute certain channels.
Rule of thumb: You can use a hex editor to do *anything*. Essentially that's what you're going to have to do to mute channels. There's a few people here with deep Mario 64 knowledge, maybe one of them can let you know exactly what needs to be changed.
Muting USF channels by TheUltimateKoopa at 4:53 PM EST on January 15, 2009
All I really need to know is where to go in the hex editor and what to change values to. All I want is to be able to listen to each channel seperately (I believe there's something like 16 channels or something)
Here's some posts that ugetab made when he worked out the variations in Dire Dire Docks and Hazy Maze Cave back in June 2004. I think the offsets he mentions here are PJ64 savestate offsets. I'm sure that the offsets are different for the track you want, but this is the closest I can come to being helpful.
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This should finish up all of the SM64 song renditions that are currently possible, so that I can go on to Zelda 64. It's definately possible for me to run the game, so I just need to toss a few codes in for the music modifier, and I'll be off an running.
-(Decimal value that makes it on)(Song Option) Decimal Address
(On) - Always on (Option A) - Standing/swimming in the water (Option B) - Inside an underwater cavern
-63(Option A) 149175 -63(Option A) 149183 -63(Option A) 149191 -63(Option A) 149207 -63(Option A) 149215 -63(Option A) 149223 -63(Option A) 149247 -64(Option B) 149271 -64(Option B) 149279 -63(Option B) 149303 -63(Option B) 149311 -63(Option B) 149319 -63(On) 149343 -63(On) 149375 -63(Option B) 149635 -63(Option B) 149667
Song Usage:
For the first rendition, all (On) values must be on, and all other values in the list set to 0.
For the next rendition, turn on all (Option A) values and set all (Option B) values to 0.
For the final rendition, turn on all (Option A) and (Option B) values.
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I spent a good number of hours debugging Hazy Maze Cave variations, because the default song is a mix of both themes. The easy part was matching the music in the game with the instruments. The hard part was looking through 77 potential instrument playing values, only 15 of which were used in the song.
Here's a cumbersome version of the document, for anyone who may wish to extract any individual samples or unusual renditions from the songs. I'll be rechecking Dire Dire Docks addresses using the same method I used to test the times and instrument for these addresses.
Anyone with a little knowledge about file editing, and an ISP patch generator could easily make a way to switch the song style on a whim.
'Decimal value for on(0 is off for all of them)' - 'Letter representation' 'Decimal Address'
63 - A 153331 62 - B 153371 63 - C 153395 63 - D 153427 63 - E 153459 63 - F 153491 63 - G 153523 62 - H 153555 62 - I 153587 63 - J 154231 63 - K 154375 63 - L 154407 63 - M 154423 63 - N 154599 63 - O 154615
Song Usage:
Both:
-Intro- A C E G H
-End Intro-
-Other- B J K L M N O
-End Other-
Normal Cavern Differences:
+D -F -I
Hazy Maze Differences:
-D +F +I
Letter Reference - Instrument sound, First Heard at Time
A - Drums, 0:00 B - Sand paper, 0:08 C - Early Chords, 0:04 D - Chords, 0:37 E - Intro Chord, 0:03(3 notes played) F - High Pitch Chords, 1:03 G - Drums, 0:00 H - Humming, 0:00 I - Humming, 0:37 J - Unknown,0:15 K - Drums, 0:44 L - High Pitch Drums, 0:40 M - Med-High Pitch Drums, 0:34 N - Higher Pitch Drums, 0:34 O - Hollow Wooden Sticks, 0:34
I don't understand this at all. What file am I supposed to be opening? sm64.usflib or the actual miniusf file for Hazy Maze Cave? And when you say "decimal address", if the address is say, 32, should I be searching for "20" (the hex equivalent of 32)? I don't get where to change what.
I've not gotten anywhere so far. I've tried editing where I think you're supposed to edit, but nothing happens. I don't know what file I'm supposed to open in the Hex Editor, what value(s) I'm supposed to change, and what to. Basically, what I want to do is to be able to play only single channels (or instruments), so I can sequence good MIDIs of the songs without having to cause my ear to bleed from trying to listen to say, the drumline of "Super Mario 64 Main Theme".
My suggestions would be to either use the 2SF files (since vio2sf has channel muting) or use VGMtrans and use its output MIDI files as references. The renditions of the songs are exactly the same as far as the end result MIDI sequence would be concerned.
"or use VGMtrans and use its output MIDI files as references" - heh forget referencing, all the sequence data is perfect, it'd be a waste of time to re-sequence it all through reference. you can practically just change patches on those and you're good to go (although sometimes you need to transpose stuff and move percussion to the right notes, but yeah...)
this is why i wouldn't ever sequence NDS music btw, it's far too easy to just rip midis. and yeah the funny thing is a lot of DS games are remakes too.
this is why i wouldn't ever sequence NDS music btw, it's far too easy to just rip midis. and yeah the funny thing is a lot of DS games are remakes too.
Either I'm half asleep or that makes no sense to me...
What, do you mean you wouldn't rip D.S. music, just because VGMTrans can do it for you and better? Or do you mean you would be tempted to rip them out of the game?
I said I wouldn't sequence DS music (as in, listen to DS music and transcribe it into MIDI format by ear.) vgmtrans can just rip the sequence data out, so it's done already.
I've actually tried that JILost. When listening to single channels however, it's kind of "random", it plays a bit of slap bass, then some drums it's all mixed. Also, you're the same guy who made a MIDI of "Baddies on Parade" from DKC3 on March 2, 2001 aren't you? :D Also, god damn is VGMTrans normally "this" slow?
Well I've got vgmtrans and had a go at it. It's pretty easy to use. Also, if I was to use that to convert a song to MIDI, but then use the MIDI to literally copy all the notes in an actual sequencer, and then submitted it to VGMusic, that'd be acceptable right? That is, rather than a "something2mid" conversion, it's a "something2mid conversion that has been copied manually" thing <_<. Although "The file you requested, http://www.vgmusic.com/new-files/upload/upload.php, is not accessible by you. This could happen for several reasons:" is what I get, I was just wondering if I would have access, would that be acceptable as a "non MIDI conversion" despite a MIDI conversion was used to help? (Sorry for going off-topic)
Hmm... Well a midi coming straight out of VGMTrans would usually sound like a pile of trash.. But I guess if you took the time to copy the notes, correct the errors, transpose a few things to the correct pitch, fix the drums etc. Then maybe it would be acceptable. So basically, you use it more as a reference.
vgmusic is even more against vgmtrans rips than it is *2midi conversions, at least right now, but probably permanently. don't submit them (or anything like them) there.
like i said earlier, there's literally no point using vgmtrans rips as 'guides' while transcribing, because the sequence data is practically perfect already - you'd be wasting your time. better off just using the vgmtrans rips directly if you must. naturally it'd be a dumb idea to try and take credit for the original composers' sequence data though, so uh yeah don't, simply put.
tldr: fine for personal use, just don't post them around anywhere claiming credit -- not cool.
So I wouldn't be able to do a vgmtrans rip, then do what Andrew said, i.e. transposing, correct pitch, fixing drums etc, and then saving that as a completely manually made MIDI and call it my own? But doing that's just what every one else does, except instead of copying the notes from the actual file, you're copying the notes from another MIDI, isn't it?
Below is a MIDI I used VGMTrans to rip. I opened up my MIDI editor and corrected all the patches and listened to the original file. It sounds quite good in GM actually.
http://tinyurl.com/Operate-MIDI
Its better than any person could do, and so they should be allowed (my personal opinion), if the person who has extracted them has taken the time to alter them and credit the original makers of the music.
I understand that the work isn't theirs, but if they are not claiming that, then why is it still not accepted?
Ultimte Koopa is right, people either do it from another MIDI or listening to the soundtrack, which results in shoddy attempts (which amazingly get accepted), pitches wrong, wrong tempo, totally out on instruments etc....
Not saying that its clever etc., just that its a "perfect" MIDI rendition. I am planning on doing the whole Under the Knife as GM MIDI soon, but obviously I dare not try to submit it to VGMusic for a number of reasons, although personally I think that they would go well on there as it is lacking most of the UtK MIDIs. ;-)
in my opinion that's cool. i just think i'd be pretty annoyed if i'd written music for a game, and someone went and ripped it out and said they sequenced it. best thing would be to just 'fess up and say they're vgmtrans rips, and that all you did was arranged them for general MIDI playback. there's still no place for that at vgmusic right now though, which i'll explain about since you've asked.
"I understand that the work isn't theirs, but if they are not claiming that, then why is it still not accepted?"
it's a touchy issue, because the site is driven by a community of contributors who do it all by ear. if the site started accepting ripped sequence data (not just vgmtrans N64/DS, but also bundled midis in PC games, saturn/PSX seq2mid conversions and whatever else there is (not including SPC/NSF/module conversions because they're different)) then we'd quickly find the community activity undermined - even if they were clearly labelled as rips. it's also more touchy from a legal standpoint - right now the site can get away as being a fan art community of sorts, but i'm not sure it'd be viewed as favourably if rips were accepted. it would completely change the face of the site.
"which results in shoddy attempts"
not always - it's completely down to the individuals doing it. there's a lot of shoddy stuff that gets submitted, no doubt, but some people are very good at it (check out stuff by Dentelle, Pongball, Rexy, Teck, Willow, Marine, thomash, dw_junon, Swordbolt/Zenkusa, Jayster, BlueWarrior, the list goes on... they're very well done, and it takes significant skill and practice.) here's one of mine done completely by ear, if you're still in doubt - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq4_0xyWQ5o
in an ideal world i'd see ripped midis on vgmusic too, since it would mean pretty much perfect sequences of so many games, easily accessible. as it stands though, i don't think it'll happen.
only the original vgmtrans works with N64 roms for me. and yeah only maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of games i try work (haven't tried many though, simply because I don't have many ROMs... no GOODN64 for me!)
@Lunar: In response to "i just think i'd be pretty annoyed if i'd written music for a game, and someone went and ripped it out and said they sequenced it. best thing would be to just 'fess up and say they're vgmtrans rips, and that all you did was arranged them for general MIDI playback"
What I mean is, what if I ripped and converted to MIDI, then, opened it in some MIDI player that shows the notation/score, and then opened, in my case, NoteWorthy Composer, and literally copied the notes from the MIDI and basically re-made the MIDI from scratch, FROM the converted MIDI?
There is no point... The original will be better, so there is no point doing that. The sequence data will be the same, therefore not yours and also it will be missing required pitch bends and other system commands.
yeah what he said, that's a stupid idea, your midi will be worse. even if it turned out identical, you would have nullified the whole point of the activity, since you may as well have just used the rip. plus from the perspective of vgmusic (which prefers the ladies btw), how would we tell apart your sequence from a midi rip anyway, besides your own word? even if you did arduously and meticulously re-sequence all the midi data through careful reference and get it perfect, there's no way for us to see that you hadn't just ripped it out of a ROM :)
so yeah, anything that looks suspect would be deleted, as it stands. these questions feel kind of hypothetical anyway, are you just asking purely for the sake of argument or something?
Here's an example of a txt file for one of my MIDIs:
Added by: Pongball <pREMOVEonTHISg@vgmusic.com> Date Added: 2006-07-13
File URL is http://www.vgmusic.com/new-files/GameBoyCamera-DJ2.mid Upload Date and Time: 04/28/2006 14:52:56
Uploaded by: theultimatekoopa@myway.com (The Ultimate Koopa) Originating IP Address: 80.3.32.10 Proxied for: 86.4.25.70
Game System: Gameboy Game Name: Gameboy Camera Song Title: DJ Sample 2 (XG) Sequenced by: The Ultimate Koopa Other Information: -MIDI Header Information- MIDI Type: 1 Number of Tracks: 4 Delta Time Setting: 192
-Text Analysis- By NoteWorthy Composer Generated by NoteWorthy Composer
The part where it says "By NoteWorthy Composer" and "Generated by NoteWorthy Composer" SHOULD prove it's not a rip, right? The only reason I would use a rip would be so I know what the notes are, and also, rips suck. (Vgmusic doesn't suck BTW. Just because I got banned from ever submitting MIDIs there).
doesn't prove anything. you can just import then export a midi, and any software-specific markers/copyright messages will be added in the exported midi (in your case, Generated by NoteWorthy Composer -- but other sequencers do it too.)
@Lunar: You check every submitted file to see if its a ROM rip or not? ???
@TheUltimateKoopa: I'm sorry VGMusic does suck, its my opinion on it... Not everyone has Noteworthy Composer, and so not everyone can check that it was from that.
The link is dead too...
Rips don't suck, Lunar will back me up... Especially VGMTran's exports with DLSs. They sound "Exactly" like the original, if the right bank is loaded into my soundcard...
Even then the Snes rips I have done sound ok too...
rips are usually obvious :P lots of *2midi conversions leave marker/copyright info, which people don't edit out (and even if they do, there's usually a whole tonne of messy controller data, particularly at the start. i use a hardware synth, and hardware doesn't like tonnes of midi messages happening simultaneously. there's other various tell-tale idiosyncracies that make conversions obvious.)
for vgmtrans rips and the like, most people are stupid and upload raw rips, so obviously the patches and percussion is all messed up. failing that (and this happens rarely), they often sound too perfect, and are by otherwise unfamiliar names (usually fairly suspect names too, like DARKSAMUS_93 or something~)
You can't import or export a MIDI in NoteWorthy Composer. It doesn't keep ANY information like pitch bends, or volume changes or instrument changes etc. It even turns a "quarter note triplet + eighth note triplet" into a "dotted eighth note + sixteenth note" etc.
Well... sucks for you dude. I'm pretty sure NWC isn't so much intended to be used for General MIDI authoring as it is for score creation/presentation (alike Sibelius/Finale.) If you are correct, then the fact that it doesn't import/export controller/pitch data or take into account slight nuances in rhythm/note duration seems to back that up. That said, I know people who have used it and had good results with it (and I could have sworn their midis had controller data.)
You can create a new NWC file, and add controllers and export to a MIDI which keeps the controllers, BUT you can't open a MIDI file with it without any controllers going away.
I wish the ability of conversion didn't exist, but it does. Sure it's kinda cool, but yeah, and I guess there's nothing stopping people from using conversions in any way..
But, the fact is, if you do use conversions, you can sure feel proud that you did all the work yourself.
Fridgey: That depends on whether or not you actually consider it work. For those of the opposite opinion, creating these MIDIs is much the same as making fan art is to a fan artist. They do it because of their love of the music, not because they desire to simply replicate it. The best kind of fan art is the kind that is based off their own ideas, not the kind that perfectly imitates a piece of official art(although it's certainly impressive if they can manage it), simply because the official art already exists so there's no reason to replicate it. Likewise, I'd be much more impressed if someone is able to recreate a song quite faithfully simply by listening to it than I would be by someone who just runs the game code through a program and then fixes up a few mistakes. The second way may generate the better result in the end, but in that case I may as well just listen to the version from the game.
Generally speaking, I *do* prefer official art over fan art and the original music over a recreation(but being a creative kind of person myself, I appreciate the talent put in to fan works as well)... But thanks to the work of the guys around here, I can already listen to the original music, so I have no need of a MIDI version of it, because the original will (almost) always sound better.
"I have found very little faithful hand done MIDIs..."
It's a shame that a few bad eggs spoil the whole batch for you. I like to think I am faithful to the original tracks when I'm transcribing... Also, check the names I mentioned, they are talented people and don't get nearly enough credit. I'm sure countless OCReMixers have used midis to aid their remixing :)
Yeah, out of all the benefits that I see to having the music in a sequenced format (there are many), "having the music" is not usually one of them. If you want the original music, you get the original music, not midis. That used to be less easy when there weren't xSF formats and high speed internet for all, but it's fairly straightforward these days now we have all that. I only keep midis which I really like, or need for some other purpose. That and tracks that are in midi format to begin with... lots of PC soundtracks, japanese musicians composing with their sound modules, stuff friends will send me, etc etc.
It also helps if people use a decent midi device, but most people get stuck with that microsoft wavetable atrocity.
"But, the fact is, if you do use conversions, you can sure feel proud that you did all the work yourself."
That's what I mean by using the MIDI to sequence the MIDI. You used a conversion, but you also took the time to copy all the notes, and therefore you can call it your own.
"You used a conversion, but you also took the time to copy all the notes, and therefore you can call it your own."
Depends. There's a world of difference between opening a MIDI and copying notes vs. listening to a piece of music and transcribing the parts by ear. SPC and NSF conversions are usually too crappy to work with directly, so I agree in that sense, but working with vgmtrans rips would be a different story.
Besides, SH&E LOL'D you :) he was being sarcastic.
"What?"
He said he's done other midis as well as the DKC one.