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by ArcticJaguar725 at 4:56 PM EDT on August 31, 2019
Alright, give these a try: Modified SDATs

What's interesting about SSEQ_0027 in Nintendogs (you got the two backwards btw) is that there appears to be two different sequences within the same SSEQ file. VGMTrans I believe plays the second one, while the NCSF player plays the first one. I tried muting the channels for both instances just in case, but I haven't looked deeply enough to figure out whether it's possible for me to separate the two or not. Everything else though should work as desired.
by porocopi16 at 3:24 AM EDT on September 1, 2019
@icecream I mean I kinda figured that when songs that have notes that fade out (the walking theme actually is like this, the bit that's currently ripped, there's an instrument that fades out each time it's used from the beginning 34-second loop) when they didn't work. I just thought if that's the way people were claiming it to work that that's the way to do it, alright, but seemingly it's not the case anyway and it's like i ran into a dead end.

and i imagine either because people don't know this happens or they just didn't care that it's never been ripped in that way before.

@ArcticJaguar ah yes that was a mistake of mine, apologies, i was looking at the bath theme first then the walking theme without realising they were backwards, it was late too. But both are right next to each other anyway.

VGMTrans starts from the beginning of the song where the actual walking part of the theme starts (because what happens is you draw a route, which the 2sf/ncsf player plays that part of the theme that loops first, then when you confirm the walk, it stops looping that bit and then starts from the beginning where vgmtrans starts). If there's two sequences maybe it's because there's two loops, because a walk can take well over a minute and that loop needs to continue for as long as the walk happens until you return home, which, given you get more stamina as you do it (which is how far you can draw the route), means walks can take longer, and the song needs to loop for that period of time until you return to the house, iirc walks on max stamina if you use up the whole amount take up to an hour i think.

Perhaps there needs to be a way for the player to skip loops somehow since the sseq would be programmed to do that ingame somehow.

it feels so good to listen to a version of the first loop without the panting sample omg though it's literally identical to in-game's version now, at least, when you're drawing the route.

thank you for your work regarding all 3, now I just gotta figure out if there's a way to split the second loop from the walking theme somehow.

edited 3:30 AM EDT September 1, 2019
by ArcticJaguar725 at 3:43 AM EDT on September 1, 2019
Yeah, I believe the two loops are merged together on a channel basis, so separating the two won't be a super easy feat. I wouldn't expect there to be any programs that natively support SSEQ separation in this manner since I've never seen anything like this done before, but I could always be wrong I suppose too. If you have coding/hexadecimal experience, what I'd recommend would be taking a look at the source code for VGMTrans and midi2sseq to see if you can decode some of the MIDI commands and make sense of the format through there. If you can find the use of values that describe channel size or mark the end point of a channel, you can use that info to try and potentially figure out what needs to be changed or deleted in the file to get it to work. This should in theory be very possible, but it certainly wouldn't be too easy if you're unfamiliar with hex editing and might take more time than it's worth.
by porocopi16 at 7:40 AM EDT on September 1, 2019
it's very small experience i've hex edited before but it's mainly comparison points and the like which yeesh i'm unfamiliar with yeah

although, i'm listening to the sdat you edited for Sonic and for some reason the psg is off again? I reripped my og copy to check, because it appears to have jumbled up the way it plays even though i see in the sseq only one value was edited and that was to mute the channel. Like there's 4 instances in the middle where it's used and the last one is supposed to be the loudest but for some reason it's not last anymore, like they got all jumbled up or something. weird how editing one value changes it up so much.

maybe they're all off, i listened through both desmume and my actual ds (as you start the fight with the song with that instrument missing as the guy on youtube stated, you're away from it majority of the fight) and it doesn't even try to change volume at all. huh.

for the walk song heck it i might just rip the midi and try to loop that since it sounds close enough.
by icecream at 10:13 AM EDT on September 1, 2019
Now I should probably confess that I haven't really listened to anything here (mainly since I'm unfamiliar with the linked tracks and don't have a point of reference, so I'm not sure what to treat as "normal"), so I've just been assuming and guessing what the problems are.

- If it's to have the .SSEQ start at a different point than the beginning, I guess you could program it the same way audio players allow you to start tracks at different points. Otherwise, I'm at a loss.

- If you're aiming for tracks that have added or missing elements depending on certain points in the game, then this might be exactly like Pokemon Gen 5's variable scoring system. If you want to listen to versions of the tracks without it, you'd have to edit the MIDI (or SSEQ like ArcticJaguar suggested, which I believe you can do in Nitro Studio since it's in ASM format) to remove those elements. Otherwise, you're out of luck, as the official soundtrack releases do not have them. (Also, even if you could isolate channels as I just saw you mentioned in the first post, that wouldn't work for PSG since program changes exist and there could be a mix.)

- If the PSG calculation by shit like Nitro Studio is wrong, then I'm really at a loss, especially when some of these programs base the calculations off of the SDK.

- If this is turning into a project to completely fix how VGMTrans exports DS stuff to be accurate to the game (putting it back in is actually not as difficult if you have Nitro Studio or the SDK), then we might want to start with fixing up the completely wrong ADSR conversions.

edited 10:14 AM EDT September 1, 2019
by ArcticJaguar725 at 5:34 PM EDT on September 1, 2019
How much information is lost as a result of conversion from and back to SSEQ with the walking theme? If it's not a noticeable amount of data, you could try doing it that way. As for adding looping support though, this can supposedly be done using Anvil Studio. Just make sure you add the event markers in the right spots and name them loopStart and loopEnd exactly. I've always used Awave Studio to accomplish this though, so I can't really say I'm familiar with Anvil Studio otherwise.
by porocopi16 at 10:15 PM EDT on September 1, 2019
@icecream well for big swell i did link a youtube post above as that's what happens when you load up the boss in-game, the track already starts. There is a soundtrack version of the walking theme that has all the pieces but it sounds a lil different since it's enhanced being an ost and all.

yeah basically, sonic rush adventure's was simply muting one of the instruments, the walking theme was two plus finding a way to skip to the second loop since the song has multiple.

+ @ArcticJaguar I did try that actually, I tried downloading Anvil Studio as that was mentioned in the tutorial I found. Especially with the loopstart and end thing, it just wouldn't convert the midi back though, not sure why. I guess for nintendogs though it could be that or vg studio, since it doesn't seem to use any psg in that song at all, most programs play everything but that perfectly fine.

I actually had downloaded Nitro Studio and I put both sdats through it, the original one from the game and jaguar's. jaguar's caused the program to crash, while the original played just fine (with that instrument unmuted), but the psg kinda exploded, so yeah idk what calculations it's using but it sounds nothing like how even the off versions of it sound on programs like vg music studio or exporting the 2sf/ncsf from it even. Like it was being corrupted as it played or something. So yeah if it is official it's definitely a bad one too.

also i think like even the rip on the site with the psg is slightly incorrect after listening through desmume with my save file there's no variation i can think of and that's really weird.

by ArcticJaguar725 at 12:08 AM EDT on September 2, 2019
Are you sure you sent me the correct file then? It is true that I only changed one byte of Sonic's SDAT, but I see no reason why it should mess with anything else. For the record, Nitro Studio crashes for me if I try to play the sequence from either SDAT through there (edited vs. unedited). On top of that, phase inversion based on NCSF conversions shows no unexpected difference between the two files. Unfortunately I don't know what it is supposed to sound like, but if it doesn't work outside of the DS AND you're absolutely certain the original SDAT file you sent is correct, you might have no choice but to record DS audio via line out.
by porocopi16 at 7:46 PM EDT on September 3, 2019
yeah i may have to just grab it from like desmume or something. i don't think it's your fault, just that the psg is wonky in all versions, even the regular one without the muted instrument

thanks for your efforts though
by icecream at 9:52 AM EDT on September 8, 2019
Record line-in; emulations may end up producing the same jank (and for Desmume some of the calculations were used for 2SF, which is now outdated).

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